Rethinking your carry choice in light of the riots.

[Dougaz]

Let's try this ....

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Mn49k9xoxU[/ame]

 

[Lon C.]

Nope. Not me.

I live a short 20 miles from the occupied zone. And there have been quiet protests here as well.

I don't go where I'm not wanted. I'm good with that.

As a beginner, just a few brief years ago, I learned right from the beginning, some words of wisdom from my 83 year young firearm instructor, which will stay with me forever.

He said, "...before you even begin to think about drawing your firearm, just remember that behind e-v-e-r-y bullet fired is an attorney. Be prepared to ante up all of your finances, then offer the sum total to the best defense attorney that your money will provide. You'll need all the help you can get."

Even if you are in another state, the words above should resonate to some degree.

We need only to look around to see how the stages are being set around the country, and how fast penal code laws are changing.

I have been a juror many times in my 50+ years in California; Municipal [no longer viable], Superior and Federal. In these juries that I recall, many of the defendants were firearm related. These were convicted murders, drug dealers and hustlers from every shade of depravity. I believe that this type of exposure to our legal system is beneficial for every citizen to become engaged in, instead of avoiding at all costs.

Have you bought a new appliance [like an electric fan?] lately? In the first handful of pages, you noticed the owners manual offers page after page of manufacturers "C.Y.A." legal-speak? A 15 page owners manual has 13 pages of legalese.

No my friends, I believe Kanewpadle is spot on. For my wife & I, we side with Marine Corps General James Mattis, "Your #1 option for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence and de-escalation."

 

[Oracle]

My EDC with five rounds remains the same as well as the speed loaders. I rearranged my safe a bit in relation to up front priority. I certainly hope the poo never hits the fan.

 

[millerj7]

Like others, I feel the best option is to avoid known "situations" if at all possible. Living in rural central MI, it remains calm and level-headed (mostly, except for our power hungry Governess!) Trying to plan for the unplanned has had me making a few modifications to my thinking.

My EDC has gone back to "old school" from a Ruger LC9s to my old 3913 which was feeling neglected in the safe. No issues with the Ruger...just had forgotten how much I love that old S&W.

In the car (small SUV) my old standby, a M&P9 2.0 and extra 17 round mag "ride shotgun" wedged between console and passenger seat in a cheap eBay nylon holster attached with industrial velcro to the console. This has not changed for a few years now. I also consider the vehicle a weapon, if needed.

The one big change I made was to buy and equip a Ruger PC Charger for a scenario when everything breaks down into societal mayhem. It fits in a small backpack, uses all the common Glock 9mm mags, and is scary accurate with a micro red dot mounted. Do not see the need at this point, so it currently serves as a house gun.

As noted, so far things remain calm around here...we will see what November brings. Hope we all vote and keep our country great and return to some semblance of sanity and "normal."

 

[biku324]

Here is the actual criminal complaint. Five (5) felonies with firearm enhancement; one misdemeanor. The last guy the kid shot had his hands in the air, clearly empty. CLICK HERE to read the criminal complaint filed against Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha County | | journaltimes.com

 

[kbm6893]

Here is the actual criminal complaint. Five (5) felonies with firearm enhancement; one misdemeanor. The last guy the kid shot had his hands in the air, clearly empty. CLICK HERE to read the criminal complaint filed against Kyle Rittenhouse in Kenosha County | | journaltimes.com

The last guy shot had a gun in his hand. Many videos clearly showing it. He was also a felon and prohibited from possessing a gun. He attempted to get rid of the gun after the shooting. He survived. So let's see if the DA charges his felon in possession of a firearm with yet another felony. Wanna bet he's not charged?

I'm sure this Rittenhouse kid wishes he never went to that car dealership. But the fact remains the people he shot assaulted him, the last two as he was attempting to leave the area. The people he shot weren't peaceful protesters, they were there to cause damage and mayhem. Two of the three shot had violent felony records.

 

[biku324]

Read the complaint.

 

[kbm6893]

I read what was in the link but it's only one page. And to be honest, I don't care. I have seen the videos. The gun is clearly in the last guys hand. He's running up to the kid who is on his knees, after being hit with a skateboard and kicked in the head. The guy was literally in the middle of pointing it when the shot to the arm stopped that. There is clear video of it.

The complaint means nothing because it is clearly biased. Where is the complaint for the felon in possession of a firearm? When will his probation or parole be revoked? They threw a "plastic bag" at him? Really? Rioters and looters are throwing plastic bags now? Why the automatic assumption that it was harmless?

I don't support militias being formed to do what the cops should be (and more than likely want to be) doing. I get what their motivation is, but if these mayors and governors want to allow this nightly anarchy to go on, and give a place for the worst of society to come together to cause mayhem, then I say let them. This kid is 17 years old. His life is over. His family will more than likely be bankrupted. The person who lent him the rifle will be charged and do some time, not to mention be financially ruined. All for what? To protect a car lot from thugs operating with the full approval of the mayor and governor? I'd be tying the bedsheet into a noose right now if I was that kid.

You're a cop. You know charges and the lack of charges are often Politically motivated. These animals assaulted a kid. One of them had a gun and looked like he was prepared to use it. He won't be charged. Matter of fact, that lowlife will more than likely sue, saying the police (the ones he is calling to be disbanded) didn't protect him.

 

[ben_g1]

I've not changed my carry guns, but as of now I live in a good place where I can wear my MAGA hat without any hassles (so far) and display the thin blue line on my back window .

As I read thru these posts I find it saddening how things have changed for so many. Not going out after dark, don't go where I'm not wanted, having to carry more ammo, etc.

I hope things settle down after the election, but my gut feeling is it will carry on or even be worst. So sad.
I'm 71 and will not back down or be made to raise my fist.

 

[ladder13]

In the absence of law and order, anarchy exists. What do you think is going to happen when you support these lawless "peaceful protests"?
Even people who are not on one side of the other are going to do what they have to do to survive.

Again, you reap what you sow.


Give up these "peaceful protests" nonsense already.

Take the cops off the streets and let the rioters go at it until civil society has had enough. Why risk injury or death to any of the first responders?

 

[biku324]

I read what was in the link but it's only one page.

The complaint means nothing because it is clearly biased.

You're a cop. You know charges and the lack of charges are often Politically motivated. These animals assaulted a kid. One of them had a gun and looked like he was prepared to use it. He won't be charged. Matter of fact, that lowlife will more than likely sue, saying the police (the ones he is calling to be disbanded) didn't protect him.

If I felt that charges were political I'd never have worked in policing. I'm finishing my 41st year in the industry.

The criminal complaint is a probable cause statement. As you are aware, more detailed evidence is for the grand jury or preliminary hearing. If the decedents or the wounded victim were armed, that would have been in the complaint; do note the police had the videos as well and both they and the DA are accountable for what's in the complaint.

Criminal histories of victims are irrelevant in court. Period.

Shooting someone whose empty hands are in the air means at least one count isn't really vulnerable to the affirmative defense of 'self-defense' or 'defense of others.'

I believe in the 2nd Amendment; I also believe the 5th and 6th are more germane to this discussion.

 

[kbm6893]

If I felt that charges were political I'd never have worked in policing. I'm finishing my 41st year in the industry.

The criminal complaint is a probable cause statement. As you are aware, more detailed evidence is for the grand jury or preliminary hearing. If the decedents or the wounded victim were armed, that would have been in the complaint; do note the police had the videos as well and both they and the DA are accountable for what's in the complaint.

Criminal histories of victims are irrelevant in court. Period.

Shooting someone whose empty hands are in the air means at least one count isn't really vulnerable to the affirmative defense of 'self-defense' or 'defense of others.'

I believe in the 2nd Amendment; I also believe the 5th and 6th are more germane to this discussion.

I don't know where you've been that you haven't seen the video and stills of the guy with the arm wound holding a gun. They're everywhere.

Charges aren't political? These people are rioting and looting in full view of cops and cameras, and the very few that are arrested have their charges dropped. DA's is all of these cities have gone on the record saying they will not press charges for property crimes during the riots. Cops are told to stand down.

I mentioned the criminal records because it is germane to the discussion of a felon with a gun. He hasn't been charged. He won't be. And that is political.

This kid was a cop wanna-be. Now he's a cop never will be. Most of these guys are. I was watching a much longer video of the incident before the shooting. Kyle and others telling people to get off the street. Who made him boss? You wanna stand in front of a business to protect it from being burned? That's one thing. Walking into the street to order people away is another.

So what this kid did before the shooting might not have been wise. But other than maybe a 17 year old having a rifle, what did he do that was illegal? We can't see much of what led up to the first shots being fired, but we sure can see what happened before the second round. And I see dozens of people surrounding one person who is running away, then kicking him, hitting him with a skateboard, and one of the "victims" in possession of a firearm. And I hear lots of shots going off that weren't coming from his rifle.

Here's the article regarding the guy with his hands in the air

Alleged Kenosha shooter's lawyer claims self-defense amid new video

 

[biku324]

Then I guess the truth will come out in court. With video, witnesses, and physical evidence.

 

[pennzy]

If this is what a "greater America" looks like, no thank you. To those condoning murder on American streets thinking this is good for the 2nd amendment , God help us.

 

[JS Esq.]

If I felt that charges were political I'd never have worked in policing. I'm finishing my 41st year in the industry.

The criminal complaint is a probable cause statement. As you are aware, more detailed evidence is for the grand jury or preliminary hearing. If the decedents or the wounded victim were armed, that would have been in the complaint; do note the police had the videos as well and both they and the DA are accountable for what's in the complaint.

Criminal histories of victims are irrelevant in court. Period.

Shooting someone whose empty hands are in the air means at least one count isn't really vulnerable to the affirmative defense of 'self-defense' or 'defense of others.'

I believe in the 2nd Amendment; I also believe the 5th and 6th are more germane to this discussion.

Wait, you don't think it's justifiable to shoot someone because they threw a plastic bag at you? What kind of American are you? I mean, I'm sure a bunch of armchair video investigators know more than the witnesses and police who were actually at the scene and saw what actually happened and what was left behind...

The kid's a real piece of work. Self-styled militia member (aka, white supremacist) with delusional hero complex. Among other things, he was apparently going around all night claiming he's an EMT - nevermind that you can't be licensed as an EMT until you're 18.

Focusing on the criminal histories of the deceased is just a distraction meant to shift focus away from the responsibility of the one person there who actually pulled a trigger in this incident.

 

[kbm6893]

If this is what a "greater America" looks like, no thank you. To those condoning murder on American streets thinking this is good for the 2nd amendment , God help us.

Ironically, the last few months have made it clear that the second amendment is more important then ever. Depending of the political winds at the moment, the cops are not going to save you or even help you. If this nonsense hadn't been allowed to grow out of control for the last three months, completely unchecked, guys like this dopey kid wouldn't feel the need to do what they do.

Yeah, God help us. God help us that people who are wearing a red hat are being assaulted.

God help us that recidivist felons are getting presidential gold caskets and million dollar a day donations to Go Fund Me, while victims of looting and arson watch as their life's work is burned to ashes while the cops and the government look the other way, or even worse, they look right at the looters and arsonists and either do nothing or if they do lock them up, the DA and the judge will let them go.

God help us that certain groups have been given a green light to burn police stations and federal buildings.

God help us that people driving to work who get surrounded by an angry mob are being vilified as monsters while those surrounding their car are the victims.

When you allow anarchy, bad things happen. The government has failed us all. The first brick that was thrown should have been stopped and there wouldn't have been a second brick thrown. You allow these animals to operate a CHAZ with impunity and look what happens.

 

[kbm6893]

Wait, you don't think it's justifiable to shoot someone because they threw a plastic bag at you? What kind of American are you? I mean, I'm sure a bunch of armchair video investigators know more than the witnesses and police who were actually at the scene and saw what actually happened and what was left behind...

The kid's a real piece of work. Self-styled militia member (aka, white supremacist) with delusional hero complex. Among other things, he was apparently going around all night claiming he's an EMT - nevermind that you can't be licensed as an EMT until you're 18.

Focusing on the criminal histories of the deceased is just a distraction meant to shift focus away from the responsibility of the one person there who actually pulled a trigger in this incident.

I don't think throwing a plastic bag warrants a bullet. I also don't think it was an empty plastic bag. Empty plastic bags thrown outside just float. I don't think a violent recidivist felon is throwing an empty plastic bag. Kid and the guy taking the video also say the Rosenbaum guy tried grabbing his rifle. Guy taking video wasn't militia. Why would he lie? We don't clearly see what happened before the first shooting but we DO know that earlier that day, Rosenbaum walked up to one of those militia guys and got right in their faces. He was clearly confrontational.

Witnesses at scene? You mean the other rioters and looters? And the cops? They weren't there. They were ordered out. They didn't arrive until after? Physical evidence? Did they find the empty plastic bag in the parking lot? Or did they find "A" plastic bag?

White supremacist? Where's that from? So much for prior criminal history being a distraction! At least in the felon's case, their criminal history is incontrovertible. Guess it's ok if it fits your narrative.

Kid was a buff, no doubt. A poser, for sure. Does that justify being attacked? No, it doesn't. Throwing something at him and attempting to take his weapon means you just might get a bullet. Personally, I wasn't disturbed by his last moments at all. A violent recidivist felon who antagonizes armed people to shoot him, and his tough prison guy demeanor melted away as he lay on that dirty concrete and breathed his last breaths. Then his cohorts begging for somebody to call the police! The irony!

Bottom line there are two sides to every story. The truth usually lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[LCC]

17 year olds are literally incapable of making good decisions, their brains are still developing, hormones still wildly unregulated. For those who actually believe they were making good decisions all the time at that age pat yourself on the back and keep it to yourself.
We're at a tipping point in America, never has it been more polarized. And the answer isn't shooting destructive protestors any more than it is protesting destructively. The answer is effective leadership that creates a middle ground for constructive discussions and agreements, something that is entirely MIA in today's hotbed of anger from each side.
And vilifying the protestors who got shot to somehow rationalize the shootings is just weak. Their mothers and fathers are sitting at home, emotionally wrecked, their lives torn apart by something that should not have happened. No one on this forum hasn't had a kid who made mistakes, took a while to grow up, and finally got it together to beome a good citizen and father? I had a son who I thought would never survive his teen and young adult years, my wife and I were prepared to lose him at any time.
Now he is an outstanding father of three boys, has a great job that he works long and hard at, and every Fathers Day he puts us both in tears thanking me for standing by him during his 'crazy years.'
No one deserves to be killed that isn't in the act of trying to kill or seriously hurt someone themselves.

 

[kmyers]

No change in what we carry here. I carry a M&P .40 and Wendy likes and carries both at different times between a H&K VP9 and a Walther PPQ in 9mm.

 

[biku324]

We've absolutely been more polarized, and in my lifetime. Remember the cities burning over segregation and civil rights? Combat veterans demonstrating against an impossible war? Hundreds of thousands in the streets every day in most cities? Occasionally, dead civilians on college campuses?

What's happening today is whiny and sniveling (comparatively speaking).