Robbery Scenario: What to do?

[Drummer Boy]

I was just wondering what to do if ever faced with this scenario: I'm in the local convenience store, buying a candy bar, and in walks a dude in a hoodie & points a gun at the cashier, demanding money. As a CCH holder, what do I do? Is this already considered a deadly situation, with the cashier at gun point? Do I draw my pistol and shout " drop the gun, I will shoot you". I know that there are probably different circumstances that could determine how I react. For example, if there are bystanders in the line of fire. That would certainly change things.

I know there's no way of knowing what's going on in the robbers head. What if he's bluffing, and just wants to take the money & run. What if he's going to shoot the cashier, regardless. What if draw my pistol, shout a warning, and the robber shoots the cashier anyway? I know there's LEOs on this forum. As a CCH holder, what should I, or shouldn't I do? I want to do whats right, not do something that would make a bad situation worse! Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[Arik]

Know the laws of your state

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[rog8732]

In light of present day society; your thoughts certainly could happen to any of us.
I have no concrete answer; but in recent times it seems the GUILTY are the "put-upon" VICTIMS, and the attempted savior is the one that is to be hanged by the neck, and burned at the stake.

I hope you get some sensible replies. I am interested also.

 

[Rpg]

Your CCH doesn't make you the Lone Ranger or Batman.

Are you in imminent danger in your scenario?

Best learn when you can use deadly force in your state.

 

[NYlakesider]

I'm not a cop nor expected to act like one.(Been CCW since early 70s and gave this a lot of thought!) I would do my best to get out of the line of fire. Then I would get a good look at the perp to help the cops in the ensuing investigation to follow.

If by some chance the crook fired and hit someone at that point if I was in a reasonably safe position and others were out of the line of fire I would do what had to be done.

 

[bigwheelzip]

I'm surprised this scenario was not questioned in great detail during your CC class. It surely was in my SC class.

 

[Inusuit]

Be a good witness. My first responsibility is to go home to my family. Unless my life is in immediate danger, I would not draw my firearm and I certainly would not challenge the robber. As others have advised, you need to know the laws in your state regarding use of deadly force. What if the robber's gun is a toy and you shoot him? What if when you challenge him to "drop the gun or I'll shoot" he whirls around and shoots you? Could ruin your day.

 

[gruntdeputy]

Drummer Boy,

That is a good question and I do agree with Arik’s response to learn the laws in your jurisdiction. What is a felony in one state might be a misdemeanor in another.

You need to look at the totality of the circumstances and then be able to articulate minute details into why you took what action that you did.

You are not a peace officer so you do not have the legal obligation to take action or to attempt a detention. If the suspect is cool and calm and the clerk is compiling and giving up the money or merchandize and everybody is acting like this is just another business transaction, then be a good witness. But if any one of those things is different you might need to take action. Say that the suspect is excited and being overly aggressive, maybe under the influence or acting crazy, and maybe the clerk is arguing with them and things seem to be getting uglier instead of better, then you might need to take action aggressively and use deadly force.

There are many books or magazine articles that describe different scenarios. You can see some examples of excellent training scenarios on-line. There are schools you can go to where these situations are discussed. But one of the best rules to remember is that we do not apply deadly force to protect property, only to protect human life. You can hold that “rule” up and use it as a benchmark in about any scenario. Deadly force should only be used as a last resort to protect your own life or the life of others.

 

[Kevin J.]

Our CCW instructor beat that horse to death. I can't remember how many times he said "remember.....you are not a cop". Great advise.

 

[Wise_A]

Step One -- Don't get caught flat-footed in the first place! Don't face the cashier directly at the register, quarter yourself so you have a view out the front window. If the front windows of a particular store are covered in advertisements, maybe consider shopping somewhere else, as that's simply begging to be robbed.

Step Two -- Get some local advice

As a former convenience store clerk, I would submit that if someone were pointing a gun at me, the last thing I would want--and this is key--is for someone to startle him!

---

Personally, this falls into the ventilate-without-warning category. Because there are two options. Option One is that I truly believe in my heart of hearts that the attacker is going to shoot the clerk, at which point he's probably going to shoot me. Since my belief is that lives are in immediate and unavoidable danger, then giving warning is inconsistent. I should use every available advantage and tactic to ensure survival.

Option Two is that I don't believe the guy is really about to shoot someone, at which point warning is consistent, but I've just escalated a situation to immediate-deadly when I didn't believe it was there yet.

My considerations:

(1) I have no sworn duty, and my primary ethical responsibility isn't to the clerk (sorry, pal).

(2) As with any gunfight, you can lose, no matter how advantaged you are.

(3) The attacker you see may not be the only one present. He may have an accomplice already in the store, and he may have an accomplice outside, potentially with even heavier artillery.

So I would intervene only if the danger was truly imminent. Ideally when the muzzle isn't covering anybody. And I would absolutely act if he told everyone to get in the back room or something, as that's a prelude to execution.

 

[arjay]

If he starts shooting-kill him
otherwise don't escalate a bad situation

 

[Drummer Boy]

Your CCH doesn't make you the Lone Ranger or Batman.

Are you in imminent danger in your scenario?

Best learn when you can use deadly force in your state.

I don't claim to be a super hero, thank you very much! I'm just not crazy about watching someone innocent get shot in the face! I don't have to be in imminent danger! I don't know about Colorado, but, here in NC you're allowed to use deadly force in defense of others, if the other person appears to be in imminent danger of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, but, only to the extent the other person was entitled to use deadly force in self defense. Based on that, I'm thinking that the gun pointed at the cashier would be imminent danger of death, but I'm not sure. I was hoping for some useful advice.Thanks for your "help"

 

[arjay]

I don't claim to be a super hero, thank you very much! I'm just not crazy about watching someone innocent get shot in the face! I don't have to be in imminent danger! I don't know about Colorado, but, here in NC you're allowed to use deadly force in defense of others, if the other person appears to be in imminent danger of death, great bodily harm, or sexual assault, but, only to the extent the other person was entitled to use deadly force in self defense. Based on that, I'm thinking that the gun pointed at the cashier would be imminent danger of death, but I'm not sure. I was hoping for some useful advice.Thanks for your "help"

He's a lawyer-pay attention...

 

[Rodger_58]

I think you recieved some useful advice. Maybe not as clear and concise as you wanted, but that is the way with scenario questions. As has been alluded to, there are inumerable things that can influence how you might react. I think the "eyeroll" was a bit much since you got sincere, well thought out advice.

I am not trying to upset or troll you, it is just very serious business and cannot be covered in a few posts.

I do commend your desire to do the right thing.

 

[Drummer Boy]

Our CCW instructor beat that horse to death. I can't remember how many times he said "remember.....you are not a cop". Great advise.

Our 8 hr course wound up going 10hrs, but our CCH instructor never covered a situation like that. He covered many scenarios, but nothing like that. However he did say " you are not the police". One scenario I remember was: A guy with a finger gun, inside his coat pocket, turning & acting aggressively toward you. He said you have the right to "stop the threat". The fact that he's using a finger gun is" his problem", because in your eyes he could possibly have an actual handgun in his jacket. His words were "too bad, too sad"!

 

[comtedeloach]

I was just wondering what to do if ever faced with this scenario: I'm in the local convenience store, buying a candy bar, and in walks a dude in a hoodie & points a gun at the cashier, demanding money. As a CCH holder, what do I do? Is this already considered a deadly situation, with the cashier at gun point? Do I draw my pistol and shout " drop the gun, I will shoot you". I know that there are probably different circumstances that could determine how I react. For example, if there are bystanders in the line of fire. That would certainly change things.



I know there's no way of knowing what's going on in the robbers head. What if he's bluffing, and just wants to take the money & run. What if he's going to shoot the cashier, regardless. What if draw my pistol, shout a warning, and the robber shoots the cashier anyway? I know there's LEOs on this forum. As a CCH holder, what should I, or shouldn't I do? I want to do whats right, not do something that would make a bad situation worse! Any advice is much appreciated.

Depends on state law, but almost universally you are not required to give a warning or announce your intentions. 99% of the time, it won't go bad, you don't have to do anything. That one percent is what you need to be prepared for. So nobody can give you a definite do/don't do for any scenario. You have to exercise your own judgement.


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[dougb1946]

C store clerks are told to surrender the money. It can be replaced. You have no dog in this fight. Back off to cover, escape if possible. Be a good witness from a distance. The store doesn't want your help. You could start the ball rolling and get people killed, including yourself. Some BGs can shoot quite well, and quickly.
If your life becomes threatened, then your weapon can be used.
I managed a c-store for a lot of years. Last thing I wanted was a gun fight over a corporations money.

 

[Muss Muggins]

If you are in fear of your immediate death or serious bodily injury and have no reasonably safe means of escape, no warning is necessary. I understand that others have stated that defense of others is allowed in various jurisdictions, but I know that I'm going home alive every night. Others, both innocent bystanders and perpetrators, I'm not so sure about . . .

 

[BigBill]

After a bad guy here robbed a local bakery got what he wanted a Patron recognized him and he killed ten people. Soon after I got my gun permit. Working pumping gas at night I told the owner to give them what they want. On the way out if the robbers shoot at us for him to kiss the cement and I'll fire back. I say to cover all the bases give the robber what he wants. Don't put your life on the line unless your life is in danger and shot at. I'm no hero, I'm not getting involved in a robbery. Once your life's in danger that's the game changer.

 

[Drummer Boy]

He's a lawyer-pay attention...

Sorry......I just didn't want to come across as a macho southern boy with a gun, that's just itchin' to shoot somebody! I'm normally a very mild mannered person, that avoids trouble at all cost! I've never been in trouble in my life.......(well, except for a few speeding tickets) I have big feet! I'll run off the road to avoid hitting a squirrel! (yeah, I'm THAT guy) I've never witnessed anyone being shot, and I hope that I never have to.