Has there been any real news coverage of the cluster bomb attack on Crimea? I saw it this morning on a email newsletter I get daily. Putin is threatening retaliation against the US since the only way these could be launched is with our technology. Is this all true?
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Russian Attack
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margethatcher
Member
We're Americans. We prefer ignorance. Uncle Joe might have us glowing by next week. It's very important Soro's be financially supported up to the point he cuts into BiBi's stash.
TJm15.38
Member
Of course it's true. Don't see that Putin has any good options. Any attack on a NATO country by Russia or it's "allies" would provoke a war that would destroy his country. Don't think he wants that. He's a blowhard and a paper tiger at this point.
LVSteve
Member
Was it a Buk (SA-11) or a Tor-M2 (SA-15) part? I saw the latter ID on The War Zone site. Neither strikes me as a good choice for shooting down an ATACMS.
How were the people on the beach killed? Well, you have some choices.
1) ATACMS cluster munitions because that where it was aimed.
2) ATACMS cluster munitions because the missile failed and went off course.
3) ATACMS cluster munitions because the missile suffered damage from an air defense missile putting it off course.
4) Falling parts of surface-to-air missiles launched in a vain attempt to shoot down incoming ATACMS. My older relatives who lived through the London Blitz were in no doubt that stuff launched up comes down sooner than later.
Take your pick. I'm sure the Russians did and applied suitable spin.
Exmilcop
Member
Official Ukrainian narrative is that, as per SOP in the Ukraine military, the missile was aimed at a nearby military facility. Here's where it get murky. Either the bomblets were the result of a technical malfunction that caused the missile to veer off of its intended target, or the missile was damaged by air defense assets and went off target due to that damage. How sickening though that Russia is trying to fake outrage about the poor innocent civilians all the while blasting Ukrainian schools, hospitals, universities, churches, cultural centers, and civilian housing into uninhabitable rubble.
DWalt
Member
These is a video of the Sevastopol beach during the attack. Numerous splashes of water from M74 bomblets from the ATACMS can be clearly seen striking offshore in a very wide pattern, hundreds of feet, indicating that the ATACMS was probably struck by some type of Russian antimissile weapon which scattered the bomblets. Lots of people in bathing suits are lounging on the beach enjoying the sunshine. They all scattered in a hurry. There is a visible explosion of one bomblet on the beach itself. Nothing remotely military-looking on the beach, just lots of swimmers and sunbathers like you would see in California or Florida.
Many years ago in a former life I did some of the early lethality testing assessments on the M74 prototypes, long before it became the M74. Looks sort of like a baseball or tennis ball with fins. Back then, the idea was to deliver them on target from artillery shells. The project had the acronym ADAM - Artillery Delivered Antipersonnel Mines. I exploded hundreds of them.
Many years ago in a former life I did some of the early lethality testing assessments on the M74 prototypes, long before it became the M74. Looks sort of like a baseball or tennis ball with fins. Back then, the idea was to deliver them on target from artillery shells. The project had the acronym ADAM - Artillery Delivered Antipersonnel Mines. I exploded hundreds of them.
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Yes, it’s all true. Those are US missiles. Most likely operated by US personnel. We have no Business over there. But it’s too late they’ve looted our treasury. We’ve given them trillions of dollars all of our weapons all of our weapon systems and now they’re gonna want our children. They’re gonna want to enlist us to draft our male and female children and I’m saying hell no. We’ve broken every treaty we’ve made with the Russians we’ve surrounded them and for what? In case you guys don’t remember Russia is where countries go to die , France, Germany, oh, and by the way, the Ukrainian Army is filled with Nazis
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Ivan the Butcher
Member
The real Nazis of WWII are just as old as our WWII vets! Everybody knows that there is nothing worse than having a 97-year-old really pissed at you!
Ivan
Here's a good, neutral source: Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, June 23, 2024 | Institute for the Study of War
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I think the Ukrainian-fired missile was damaged at altitude given this video.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb0_4W4fm30[/ame]
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qb0_4W4fm30[/ame]
Exmilcop
Member
It's sad to see how much traction the Russian lies about "Ukrainian Nazis" and "NATO expansion" have gotten in the western media. I'm a Ukrainian Canadian, ex soldier, ex mil. intelligence (basic), with friends and family who are boots on the ground in Ukraine so, though biased to a degree, I have looked at those 2 pivotal issues in great detail. Ground News is an excellent research tool since their metrics clearly show a fact index and lay out any bias from any source, be it left or right wing. Those are lies put out by Russian media, along with the organ harvesting from babies, enforced mobilization of pregnant women, genetically modified disease carrying mosquitoes and geese, torture and execution of surrendered Russian POW's etc.etc.etc. but people will believe what they want to believe.
No. There are no US Military personnel or contractors operating weapons in Ukraine. That is Russian propaganda. We have committed but not fully delivered $141 billion in aid to Ukraine since they were invaded in February 2022 and continuing through FY 24. The EU and EU nations have contributed just under $150 billion to Ukraine over the same period.
If Russia is dissatisfied with things as they now are, they can simply withdraw from Ukraine (including Crimea) which they illegally invaded and seized - do recall the Russians GUARANTEED Ukrainian borders along with us and the UK in the 1994 Budapest Memorandum in order to get Ukraine to give its nukes to Russia. Russians might also consider withdrawing from Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia, which they seized and hold illegally by force of arms.
The Russians maintain a constant stream of misinformation by use of state media, internet trolling, internet clickbait, feeding Bravo Sierra to friendly Western talking heads, and by fooling useful idiots in many countries to further their lies.
Not a fan.
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Exmilcop
Member
VERY WELL SAID!!! You may also wish to mention the Russian "peacekeepers" in Moldova. Any student of WWII history knows Hitler's claim that his troops only wanted the Czech Sudetenland to "protect" the ethnic Germans from the persecution at the hands of those vile Czechs and once they had that territory, they'd stop. Anyone else see and hear the similarity in Putin's rhetoric?
To say nothing of Russian 'peacekeepers' throughout Africa.
Russians want to subjugate Moldova at low or no cost to open a threat on Ukraine's SW border. Moldova has responded by exponentially expanding its military and applying for EU accession. The tiny batch of Russian sympathizers exist in the Transnistria on the 1350 square miles of Moldova they claim (not a claim recognized by any country). Transdniestria | Breakaway Region, Disputed Territory | Britannica
Russians want to subjugate Moldova at low or no cost to open a threat on Ukraine's SW border. Moldova has responded by exponentially expanding its military and applying for EU accession. The tiny batch of Russian sympathizers exist in the Transnistria on the 1350 square miles of Moldova they claim (not a claim recognized by any country). Transdniestria | Breakaway Region, Disputed Territory | Britannica
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Did the United States over throw an election in the Ukraine? If you really believe there are no United States troops or Nado organizing strikes in Russia when they’ve already told us that that’s what they were gonna do. Remember the escalation we can’t send tanks that would be World War III. We can’t send Bradleys that would be World War III. The truth is that place is absolutely corrupt, and there are many documentaries out there stating it, if you believe the same people who told us that a man can have a baby. Or they won’t define what a woman is and you’re still believing them.
This is very funny who you believe. I have a woman who immigrated from the Ukraine and she follows it closely and she says it’s all true. This was a base for the Germans in World War II and it’s just a fact I know the truth is ugly but you guys should send your daughters and your sons put them over there in the grinder, I’ve had enough. I don’t want war. Look at our leaders. Come on.
YeshuaIsa53
SWCA Member
There are many realities in Russia's war to take land. War crimes.
I'll keep to myself what I think so I won't pass any ideas around on the www.
I'll keep to myself what I think so I won't pass any ideas around on the www.
LVSteve
Member
Your Ukrainian source has told you barely half the story. The reason the Nazis were initially seen by many as liberators was because of the Holomodor where the accepted number starved to death by Soviet (i.e. Russian) agricultural policies is between 3.5 and 5 million. I have seen older sources claiming 15 million, explaining why Stalin used to say he lost ~40 million in WWII when nearly all other sources say ~25 million. Either way, it is pretty certain that Stalin added in those he had previously killed in various purges and the Holomodor to his actual WWII losses. Mind you, determining WWII losses in the USSR is not an exact science. World War II casualties of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
Regardless, in 1941 there was quite a bit of ill feeling towards Moscow in Ukraine, and there are many accounts of the Wehrmacht being welcomed. As time passed the Ukrainians realized their mistake. Some say it was when they saw the Germans started strip mining the wonderful Ukrainian soil to take back and grow crops in the Fatherland. Oops.
Did some in Ukraine retain right wing views after WWII? Sure, so have people in many other countries, including the US. Freedom of thought does not guarantee smart thoughts, but that is hardly news, is it. However, it is a stretch to say that Ukraine has been a Nazi led regime since the dissolution of the Soviet Union, as Putin and his merry band have been claiming.
As for whether US boots are on the ground in Ukraine, I sincerely hope that our leaders have not that mistake again. However, there are no guarantees that they have learned from previous errors.
