Russia's 'Pearl Harbor'

[biku324]

Don't like the title of this thread. Pearl Harbor was a sneak attach by a country with whom we were not at war. This was a strategic attack months in the planning by two war combatants. I do agree that this will all end very badly for all concerned if this foolishness is not shopped immediately. Given Putin is involved, I find this unlikely

The thread title is from the original Newsweek article, nothing more. https://www.newsweek.com/russias-pe...ise-drone-attack-hits-nuclear-bombers-2079520

 

[SMSgt]

Don't like the title of this thread. Pearl Harbor was a sneak attach by a country with whom we were not at war. This was a strategic attack months in the planning by two war combatants. I do agree that this will all end very badly for all concerned if this foolishness is not shopped immediately. Given Putin is involved, I find this unlikely

Well, it was a sneak attack. And to historically correct, we made the first shot--and kill--against an undeclared enemy when the Navy sunk a Japanese minisub outside Pearl Harbor hours before the air attack began.

 

[Onomea]

I don't like the Pearl Harbor analogy either, but, as I understand it the reason the analogy is used in the West is that Pearl Harbor marked a sea change in how modern wars would be fought: The rise of the aircraft carrier.

In this sense, this Ukrainian successful drone attack against the Russian bomber fleet marks a turning point: Swarms of inexpensive drones, cleverly placed and flown, taking out billions of dollars of sophisticated, high end weapons platforms.

 

[biku324]

Well, it was a sneak attack. And to historically correct, we made the first shot--and kill--against an undeclared enemy when the Navy sunk a Japanese minisub outside Pearl Harbor hours before the air attack began.

Or since 1937 when the Japanese sank the USS Panay and 3 US river tankers on the Yangtze.

 

[Kasian]

It's not just about the amount of damage, it's also about the fact that these planes are not being produced. Tu-22 is a 1960 model, Tu-95 is 1952-56 model. [ Tu-95 is a bomber-missile carrier capable of carrying nuclear and conventional weapons. The Tu-95 Bear bomber's turboprop engines, specifically the Kuznetsov NK-12, were designed by a team of German engineers led by SS Standartenführer Ferdinand Brandner. These engineers, including Brandner, were captured by the Soviet Union and relocated to the Soviet Union as part of post-WWII efforts. He had previously worked for Junkers-Motorenbau. ]. A-50 production could be restarted, but it will take years; it's a modified Beriev A-50 that was produced first in 1978.

 

[dockmurgw]

It's not just about the amount of damage, it's also about the fact that these planes are not being produced. Tu-22 is a 1960 model, Tu-95 is 1952-56 model. [ Tu-95 is a bomber-missile carrier capable of carrying nuclear and conventional weapons. The Tu-95 Bear bomber's turboprop engines, specifically the Kuznetsov NK-12, were designed by a team of German engineers led by SS Standartenführer Ferdinand Brandner. These engineers, including Brandner, were captured by the Soviet Union and relocated to the Soviet Union as part of post-WWII efforts. He had previously worked for Junkers-Motorenbau. ]. A-50 production could be restarted, but it will take years; it's a modified Beriev A-50 that was produced first in 1978.

"Captured by the soviets"? How can that be, we were told in an earlier post that the benevolent soviets offered enticements “to attract workers to Siberian industry”

 

[biku324]

There's a magnificent bridge (the Victory Bridge over the Hrazdan River) in Yerevan, Armenia that was built by German POWs under Soviet control. None of the POWs were returned to Germany. Not one.

 

[TJm15.38]

This whole clandestine operation gives me the jitters, knowing that a great majority of our strategic bomber and other bases could be subject to the same type of attack.

 

[decuerno]

This whole clandestine operation gives me the jitters, knowing that a great majority of our strategic bomber and other bases could be subject to the same type of attack.

I recently flew a personal light-plane directly over Barksdale AFB, which had 3 or 4 B52’s sitting with GPU’s (ground power units) running, the B52’s on “alert” (presumeably armed with nukes) for immediate takeoff.
I was surprised that ATC directed me on assigned heading which passed directly overhead at only 3K’.

It would have been a simple matter to route me a mile or so around them…but nope. Directly overhead.
It was a fun view…but ya’ gotta wonder about that….

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

This whole clandestine operation gives me the jitters, knowing that a great majority of our strategic bomber and other bases could be subject to the same type of attack.

Hell, we're already been "attacked" Remember the balloon a few years back

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

This makes me think of the Star Trek episode "A Taste of Armageddon" when Spock says
"They fight their war with computers !"
We may have reached the moment described by the Elder Von Moltke when he observed that war may become too expensive and a nation's industry cannot support it.
I'm more concerned that there seem to be a lot of people in our defense establishment who are Johnny Walkers at heart.

 

[decuerno]

Wwar is a Racket”, by Gen Smedley Butler

War is promoted by wealthy people seeking more wealth.

 

[biku324]

Butler lived in another time. Serbs killed Bosniaks and Croats over long-simmering hatreds held in check temporarily by Tito; IS, al Shabab, al Qaeda, the Talmawda, the Hulu, all make war on their enemies over some form of ideology.

 

[Beemerguy53]

George Will (whose column alone is worth the price of subscribing to the Washington Post) has written that Zelenskyy is the modern counterpart to Winston Churchill, leading his people with pluck and grit and determination. I think he’s definitely cemented his place in history…

 

[SMSgt]

I recently flew a personal light-plane directly over Barksdale AFB, which had 3 or 4 B52’s sitting with GPU’s (ground power units) running, the B52’s on “alert” (presumeably armed with nukes) for immediate takeoff.
I was surprised that ATC directed me on assigned heading which passed directly overhead at only 3K’.

It would have been a simple matter to route me a mile or so around them…but nope. Directly overhead.
It was a fun view…but ya’ gotta wonder about that….

B-52s armed with nukes haven't stood alert duty since the mid-'90s. Alert Buffs did not sit there with ground power units running. In fact, no power units were connected to them at all during alert duty as it would take too much time to disconnect the units and pulls them out of the way. Most likely the aircraft were being prepped for normal training missions.

 

[LVSteve]

It's not just about the amount of damage, it's also about the fact that these planes are not being produced. Tu-22 is a 1960 model, Tu-95 is 1952-56 model. [ Tu-95 is a bomber-missile carrier capable of carrying nuclear and conventional weapons. The Tu-95 Bear bomber's turboprop engines, specifically the Kuznetsov NK-12, were designed by a team of German engineers led by SS Standartenführer Ferdinand Brandner. These engineers, including Brandner, were captured by the Soviet Union and relocated to the Soviet Union as part of post-WWII efforts. He had previously worked for Junkers-Motorenbau. ]. A-50 production could be restarted, but it will take years; it's a modified Beriev A-50 that was produced first in 1978.

The original Tu-22 Blinder was a 1960 airplane, but the Tu-22M Backfire is an almost entirely different beast. It used the Tu-22 designation as a political fix for the failures of the original. Since it's introduction in the 70s, the Tu-22M has been upgraded many times. Think of the 1960s RWD Chevy Impala as the Blinder, and the 2015 FWD Impala as the Backfire.

 

[petepeterson]

George Will (whose column alone is worth the price of subscribing to the Washington Post) has written that Zelenskyy is the modern counterpart to Winston Churchill, leading his people with pluck and grit and determination. I think he’s definitely cemented his place in history…

Those who are familiar with the suppressed history of the beginnings of WWII would certainly agree that Zelensky is the modern-day Churchill.

 

[DWalt]

35 years old now, but this book is probably the most exhaustive study available of the Pearl Harbor attack. There was intelligence that some aggressive action by Japan was anticipated and expected long before the attack, but intentionally (as some contend) or unintentionally, that intelligence was ignored, misinterpreted, minimized, and not acted upon. At one time it was on the required reading list at the Air War College. Maybe it still is. https://www.yesterdaysmuse.com/page...awn-we-slept-the-untold-story-of-pearl-harbor

 

[biku324]

B-52s armed with nukes haven't stood alert duty since the mid-'90s. Alert Buffs did not sit there with ground power units running. In fact, no power units were connected to them at all during alert duty as it would take too much time to disconnect the units and pulls them out of the way. Most likely the aircraft were being prepped for normal training missions.

I learn something here every day.

The B-52 alert area at the old Roswell SAC base is still used by the City (the Air Force gave the base to them in '67) for a variety of interesting things.

 

[Rudi]

Puti says Russia will retaliate for this attack.