S&W #3 38-40 Target

[glowe]

This image doesn't help. What you need to do is determine what numbers are stamped on the rear of the top-frame, on either side of the top latch. Sometimes, stamped with partial numbers on both the left and right side. Just hold your revolver barrel facing away with the action open and look past the latch to the barrel strap. Might need magnification.

 

[Boulder350]

Sometimes a picture helps to locate the serial number on the barrel

 

[BMur]

Research

I am only trying to prove that the OP's rare gun is legit based on information provided. I'm now 100% convinced its real.

It would be great if the OP could provide a barrel serial number but the information that we have now proves its real.

The 38WCF Double action barrel is identical to the 38 WCF Single action barrel

The fact that there is a clear and correct caliber stamp on the barrel and that the OP has confirmed the barrel length is 6 1/2" is all we need.

Roy Jinks lists that the Double action 38WCF was not available with the 6 1/2" barrel length…..GAME OVER! Given the information provide by the OP is correct. I'm always amazed at how one photo shows no caliber marking then another shows a clear marking so we are at the mercy of information "provided".

RARE BIRD FOR SURE!

MURPH

 

[Shrapnel]

I can't tell you how much I appreciate the knowledge and information here. I bought this gun from a reputable guy with a great background in these guns. He had several with stocks on them, and I was interested in one of those as well.

The cylinder is also serial numbered to the gun.

Thanks so much for sharing all your knowledge…

 

[John Adams]

Here's mine

This one I was given about 20 years ago. Serial number is three digits and I have no idea of the caliber as it not marked. Last patent date is July 25 1871. It seems functional but I have not shot it.It is my only Smith not made in the 20th Century.

 

[BMur]

32-44

Looks like a 32-44.
If you can post photo's of the face of the cylinder, back of the cylinder and muzzle we can confirm the caliber as 32-44 Target.


Murph

 

[orbruce]

Roy's letter stating "from February 1906 to January 1907 there were no New Model #3 in 38 Winchester in inventory" is a little strange. I have a NM #3 in the 38-40 caliber, serial number 5x that was shipped March 6, 1906. Maybe it was lost while in inventory!

B, Mower

 

[Shrapnel]

Roy's letter stating "from February 1906 to January 1907 there were no New Model #3 in 38 Winchester in inventory" is a little strange. I have a NM #3 in the 38-40 caliber, serial number 5x that was shipped March 6, 1906. Maybe it was lost while in inventory!

B, Mower

How does one deal with a letter that becomes the absolute pedigree of a gun. I know Winchester has made plenty mistakes in their records, I have had a few. The scary part is that with the buying public, the letter can make or break the gun..

 

[rct269]

If/when you deem a letter to be unsatisfactory, you have two choices: The first and most obvious is to return it along with an explanation of your concerns---and request a corrected/altered letter.

Then there's what I did once. I ordered a letter on a 6" 2nd Model Single Shot---the barrel length being the most important aspect. Back comes a letter over Don's signature. That was somewhat startling because I didn't know he had started doing letters. A little poking around revealed Roy'd been out of town, otherwise occupied---whatever. Don couldn't confirm the barrel length---knew it was important---and apologized for the omission.

I sat and stewed a bit, then checked on Roy's availability---he was back in business---and simply ordered another letter---never said boo about the first one.

Back comes the second letter---from Roy. It goes like this: "The records indicate that this pistol was shipped with a 6 inch barrel, blue finish, and checkered black hard rubber target grips. This was a special order for a single unit."

I decided Don hadn't been to special order/single unit research school yet---and was a happy camper!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[rickyt]

This one I was given about 20 years ago. Serial number is three digits and I have no idea of the caliber as it not marked. Last patent date is July 25 1871. It seems functional but I have not shot it.It is my only Smith not made in the 20th Century.

I thought the NM3 target was available in only in 2 calibres, 32-44, or the rarer 38-44. But is there a a 38-40 in a target NM3??.
Here's mine: (32-44)

 

[Shrapnel]

I thought the NM3 target was available in only in 2 calibres, 32-44, or the rarer 38-44. But is there a a 38-40 in a target NM3??.
Here's mine: (32-44)

The whole thread is about a 38-40 Target model. This is one of around 12-15 ever made…

 

[glowe]

I thought the NM3 target was available in only in 2 calibres, 32-44, or the rarer 38-44. But is there a a 38-40 in a target NM3??. . .

There were well over a dozen calibers in the original model production of 35,796 that could have been ordered with target sights. It was a strange time in the factory with four serial number ranges assigned to various calibers and the rest just stuck in the 44 Russian caliber. I think that the company was trying to promote certain calibers by giving them a different name. The New Model 3 Frontier 44 Winchester ran their own serial number set, and the 38 Winchester had their separate numbers from 1 - 74, sold until they ran out of stock then made more in another model serial number range. There was also the NM3 44RF Turkish Model which had a separate set of numbers.

Confusing at best, but each and every NM3 made could have been ordered as a target gun.

 

[glowe]

The whole thread is about a 38-40 Target model. This is one of around 12-15 ever made…

As you re-read this thread, you will find that there were 74 made in a serial number range, plus guns like yours that were made up after the first run was gone. The written tag stated 15, but according to Neal & Jinks books, there was a serial number range for the 38 Winchester from 1-74, plus an unknown number made after that.

 

[John Adams]

Response to Murph

Looks like a 32-44.
If you can post photo's of the face of the cylinder, back of the cylinder and muzzle we can confirm the caliber as 32-44 Target.


Murph

Thank you Murph. A .32 S&W long can be inserted in the muzzle up to the case The barrel is 6" long.Front and rear of cylinder are pictured. I hope these are sufficient for your expert analysis because I'm not taking this thing apart.

 

[Shrapnel]

As you re-read this thread, you will find that there were 74 made in a serial number range, plus guns like yours that were made up after the first run was gone. The written tag stated 15, but according to Neal & Jinks books, there was a serial number range for the 38 Winchester from 1-74, plus an unknown number made after that.

And this being one of those outside that number range. The guy I got these from was quite knowledgeable on early S&W revolvers, I know nothing and have been searching wherever I can to better educate myself.

The low number (15) was cited as the few individual models that were made as such. Either way, even 1 of 74 isn't what you would consider common…

 

[glowe]

. . . 32 S&W long can be inserted in the muzzle up to the case The barrel is 6" long.Front and rear of cylinder are pictured. I hope these are sufficient for your expert analysis because I'm not taking this thing apart.

You need to grab a micrometer and take a few measurements. Measure the front and rear of the cylinder and the bore, lands and groove diameter if possible. Also, measuring the chamber if you see a reduction in diameter. Measure the distance from the rear to the cylinder to the "ring" you see inside the chamber.

If you can insert the bullet fully into the bore, it might not be a 32 caliber, but could be a 38 (.357"-.361" actual measurement)??

There were several calibers available in this model. 32 S&W, 32-44, .320 RR , and I have read about a 32 Long and 32-20 but never have ran across one.

 

[Shrapnel]

You need to grab a micrometer and take a few measurements. Measure the front and rear of the cylinder and the bore, lands and groove diameter if possible. Also, measuring the chamber if you see a reduction in diameter. Measure the distance from the rear to the cylinder to the "ring" you see inside the chamber.

If you can insert the bullet fully into the bore, it might not be a 32 caliber, but could be a 38 (.357" actual measurement)??

There were several calibers available in this model. 32 S&W, 32-44, .320 RR , and I have read about a 32 Long and 32-20 but never have ran across one.

While at the same gun show in Las Vegas, I saw several of the 320's which I had never seen before. I immediately fell in love with them, but finding brass, dies and bullets changed my mind…

 

[BMur]

32-44

Thank you Murph. A .32 S&W long can be inserted in the muzzle up to the case The barrel is 6" long.Front and rear of cylinder are pictured. I hope these are sufficient for your expert analysis because I'm not taking this thing apart.

Sounds like a 32-44 Target to me but to be sure we need a photo of the back of the cylinder without taking the gun apart just looking down the tube/chamber. The 32-44 has a .323 bore as compared to the .312 bore of the 32 S&W.

Murph

 

[ol777gunnerz]

38-40

For those who do not know, a 38-40 is a 40 caliber bullet, size .401. The case is the same as a 44-40, necked down for the 40 cal. bullet.