S&W 6904 Ejection problems

sophie2012

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Anyone had this problem? 6904 Recently bought this gun and it only had a couple boxes of bullets fired in it. After the first couple times going to the range when we fired the gun the spent cartriges are hanging up in the clip that extracts the cartrige. We were useing Independence 115 gr. The first time it did was when we used white box federals. Totally different brass. Went back to Independence and not as bad. We generally shoot 150 to 200 rounds a trip. Gun is very well cleaned after each trip to the range. My SD rounds haven't had a problem with yet but haven't shot many of those. Just got Lawman 115s today and had a real bad time with it. Still had a box of Independence and it only did it once with them and also got a box of Blazer Brass 115s and only 2 times with it. Had the guy at the gun shop take a look at it and he says some guns are just picky. I would like to think a S&W would fire any quallity bullet. Any suggestions?
 
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Sounds like the extractor is not pivoting, as long as the ejector looks good, and it probably does due to the low round count, give it a good cleaning and oil up the extractor pivot, let it soak, should be fine.....may not even be broken in yet....that usually happens when alot of crud gets built up behind the extractor and it can't pivot freely...with the low round count it may have some corrosion on the pivot and/or spring, which would cause that exact issue....
 
I cleaned it very good before going to the range. I am cleaning it now as i reply. actually today made about 1800 rounds that i have put through it so to the best of my knowledge that makes about 2000 total through the gun. Will give it a try as you suggested. How many will or should i be able to get out of it before considered a lot of ware on the gun? Teaching my wife how to shoot and going through a lot of ammo..lol
 
I've been shooting for over 40 years and have yet to wear out a gun and believe me I've been trying. You'll change springs and a few broken parts and the finish will have seen better days but the gun will most likely out last you. Don't run it dry or give it a steady diet of +P+ and it will last. Now, 1800 rds is way to few to hurt a extractor, did you bend or break the ejector one of the last times you put your slide on?
 
Are you loading it by placing a round in the chamber and letting the slide go forward instead of loading all rds thru the magazine?
 
No, i'm always very careful when assembling my gun after cleaning. I have been a mechanic most of my life and built a lot of engines and understand force is not the awnser..lol. I think maybe twice one was drop into the chamber without going through the clip. One thing i noticed is when the barrel drops down to eject the brass that the area where it settles to is rough like little ridges which makes it harder to pop it out with my figures. The area where it sits when it fires is very smooth. It also has a little edge to where it catchs my figure nail when i pull it across it. Wonder if that may be an issue as well. I put several different kinds of brass through it and some had a good bit more drag on then in that area. Also noticed that the base on some brass apears to be thicker than other. My calipers are to thick to get an accurate measurment to se how much. Thank you all for your replies and help with this.
 
Always load thru the mag. Never put one in the chamber and let the slide forward. You'll chip the extractor which will give the results you are experiencing. How many times is too many? Maybe once, maybe twice, maybe it will take more. Without examining the gun it is impossible to say for sure if it is a chipped extractor but it would be once place I'd check.
 
Thank you for your reply. I checked it out and it may have the very tip of one side(the lower towards the magazine) that is slightly rounded that i can tell. Kind of hard to see with a magnifying glass and can't get my jewelers loop close enough for a clear view.
 
If you're talking about the lower side of the ejector being slightly rounded, that is possible normal to allow the casde rim to slide under the extractor more easily. Sometimes there is a slight bevel to the lower edges.
 
Failures-to-extract are generally caused by one or more conditions, such as a dirty chamber, ammunition issues (under or over-powered, sizing issues, etc), weakened recoil spring, damaged/dirty extractor, weakened extractor spring, shooter's grip, just to list some.

If it's an older gun, I'd replace the recoil & mag springs first thing. Who knows when they were last replaced? S&W recommends replacing them in duty guns at either 5 years of service, or every 5K rounds fired.

I'd stick to using ammunition made by one or another of the major American ammo companies, and not necessarily from their lowest cost/budget lines.

Budget ammo often costs less for a reason. Ammo loaded right at the threshold of the lowest velocity (or falling below it) can sometimes exacerbate things if other less-than-helpful conditions exist, such as a less experienced shooter's unsupported grip technique (unlocked wrist and less than firm grip) or dirty chamber. Variable dimensional differences might also put things like the case rim thickness out at the very edge of the thickness spec, or an overly long case (mouth not trimmed to proper spec). I've known of both happening with one maker's brand of low-cost/low-bid duty ammo.

Now, a failure-to-eject can also involve a weakened extractor spring, or a damaged ejector.

The older 3rd gen guns had shorter ejectors, and also had a sharply cornered angled underneath the tip (where a stress riser could sometimes occur, and where the tip might snap off). The subsequently revised ejectors had longer tips, for faster ejection (especially with hotter ammo), and the angle underneath the tip was changed to more of a curve (to help reduce the potential for a stress riser).

The slightly curved part of the bottom of the ejector tip is part of the magazine safety system, allowing the left magazine lip to catch under the ejector and lift the ejector (so the gun will be able to be fired with the magazine seated).

Here's a picture of an older and newer 9mm ejector, with the older ejector design on the bottom.
9mmejectors.jpg


The camming shoulders down inside the frame, where the barrel lugs run when the barrel is dropping down during unlocking (and running back up again when rising to return to battery), can experience some peening in the aluminum frames. I've been told by several folks from the factory that this is generally considered to be normal. All of my alloy 3rd gen guns have it to some degree.

I've seen far too many owners/users fail to lubricate their 3rd gen guns well enough so they run normally. If you can't see and feel the oil on the frame rails when you remove the slide (top of the rails, as well as the high & low outside frame rails surfaces, and some on the forward dustcover inner rails), you're probably running the gun too dry. This can accelerate wear and create the potential for functioning problems.

No, the oil shouldn't be present in excessive amounts so that it runs off under gravity, dripping down the gun. ;) As an armorer, I've had to correct more than my fair share of "problems" created by excessive and/or improperly placed lubrication. (Firing pin channels and extractor recesses which have been contaminated and fouled by excessive amounts of solvents, oils, CLP's, etc are annoying.)

Releasing the slide to run forward after dropping a round directly into the chamber is a good way to damage the extractor. Loading the chamber is intended to be done via the round being stripped from the magazine (so it slips up under the extractor's hook). Fitting a new extractor requires tools and knowledge of how to file on the extractor's adjustment pad, as well as checking the extractor spring tension ($150 force dial gauge needed) ... which means a trip to a gunsmith familiar with S&W pistols or the factory (or factory authorized service center).

Just some thoughts. I have no way of knowing what's happening with your 6906 because I'm not there to watch you shoot it, or examine the gun & ammo and shoot it myself.

I've helped support a fair number of 6906/5903's, though, and fired upwards of 45K through one of the issued 6906's I used for a few years. They're a pretty decent 9mm pistol when they're maintained well, and used with good quality ammo.
 
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Update. Thanks for the replies. Ordered new ejector-magazine depresser, springs and new recoil springs and should be here in tomorrow. Gong to put those in and see what hapens. Also ordered new extractor and spring in case those don't fix the problem. Have a local gunsmith that can install those if needed. Anyone have an idea of turn around time if one is sent to Smith and Wesson for repair?
 
Got parts from Numrich today and was surprised when i opened my package. Ordered 2 ejector magazine depressors and got 2 different ones. One was the first generation and was very short like your photo and one was very long and was the super ejector which was about an eight of an inch longer than the one that was in mine. Installed it and going to the range hopefully when the wife gets home. Also ordered 2 recoil springs and also got 2 different ones of those. One was green and pretty much the same length as the one that was in it and about the same tension. The other was a quarter inch longer and black and was a tougher spring. a little harder to mash. I put that one in. Called them and told them about the different parts i received and they said send them back for exchange. Question is which recoil spring should i use or is the longer one a revision to the shorter one. The slide is a bit harder to pull back now. Hope this fixes it.
 
Judging by the recoil springs I got recently from Brownells, I think the green coated one would be correct to use.

Dave
 
Went to the range and all is well. Used three different kinds of ammo that had completly different casings. Not one failure. Used the stiffer spring which helped with the hammer effect felt in the hand when fired. Now just have to send back my spares that are different to get the right ones. Don't understand then sending me two different types of the same parts. Guess it's a good thing i ordered two of each. Thank you for all the input from you guys on the forum.
 
The hideous green recoil spring is the current factory spring.

I wouldn't use one that's longer than the green factory spring. If the spring is too long, you might run the risk of the spring compressing and stacking solid before the slide has run its proper distance rearward. Depends who made the spring, it's gauge, compressed length, intended use, etc. If it stacks solid too soon, it might stress the slide's spring box (maybe cracking the slide at some point). It's happened when some people have used recoil springs that were too long for 1911's.

No problem getting the ejector into the gun without losing the spring underneath? Or getting the sideplate legs back over the recessed head of the left end of the sear pin, without tweaking or damaging the legs? Good for you. I've seen newly minted armorers make those mistakes (and some of them that were not-so-newly-minted, as well).

The longer ejector ought to kick out the empties sooner and faster, even with hotter loads being used. A more positive ejection. Less chance of a stress riser under the curved bottom angle of the longer tip, too, compared to the sharper angle of the earlier design. Time & progress marches on ...
 
Fastbolt, please explain 'hideous' green spring. My new in 92 3913 came with one and both of my 69s also . Every time I've ordered recoil springs from Smith or Brownells its been the green spring. I change them every 3 to 5k and have noticed no problems. The only time I've had coil bind was with after market Sig springs, couldn't chamber a round freely so it was back to the expensive Sig springs. Lesson learned.
 
Fastbolt, please explain 'hideous' green spring. My new in 92 3913 came with one and both of my 69s also . Every time I've ordered recoil springs from Smith or Brownells its been the green spring. I change them every 3 to 5k and have noticed no problems. The only time I've had coil bind was with after market Sig springs, couldn't chamber a round freely so it was back to the expensive Sig springs. Lesson learned.

My use of the word "hideous" is merely referring to the shade of green paint used for the 3913 (and variants and 69XX guns (same paint color as the CS45 recoil spring).

How about a "bilious" shade of green? :p

Your replacement regimen would seem prudent, since the factory recommendation runs to replacement either every 5 years or every 5,000 rounds fired, whichever occurs first.

I'm a bit more conservative in my own replacement of recoil springs, doing so sooner than the normal recommendation, but that's because I've been using issued +P+ or +P loads for the last several years.
 
Go on, call it what it is:

ZOMBIE green!:D

Another chuckle ... :D

I have to admit the thought crossed my mind, having seen some of the silly theme-base things they're selling in cutlery & firearms.
 
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