S&W and Ruger ...

[steelslaver]

From the above links I found this video explaining forged vs cast vs MIM

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFRBmLbkNGA[/ame]

 

[Walkingwolf]

Extractor stars wear out?

The star machined surface bears on the recoil shield, it has a direct affect on end shake if it peens. Severe peening can also affect timing.

 

[Bubba2014]

Ruger makes quality guns that with normal use will probably last for the life time of the owner, but in my opinion they do not have the classic looks and value of either Colts or Smith & Wessons. I've been told more than once that I'm just an old curmudgeon.

 

[jtcarm]

Because the GP100 is cheaper to manufacture.


As far as the cast vs forged debate, there is a reason why there is Ruger only loads available from Underwood, BB, DT, and reloading manuals.

Would you please cite a reputable source (ammo mfr or reloading manual) of your claim that there is such a thing as .357 magnum loads for Rugers only?

If you can't, then please stop posting it in threads about medium-frame .357s.

Yes, there is such a thing as .45 Colt loads for stronger, more modern revolvers. But as near as I can tell, "Ruger-only" .357 ammo is a myth.

 

[ctxcummins]

Would you please cite a reputable source (ammo mfr or reloading manual) of your claim that there is such a thing as .357 magnum loads for Rugers only?

If you can't, then please stop posting it in threads about medium-frame .357s.

Yes, there is such a thing as .45 Colt loads for stronger, more modern revolvers. But as near as I can tell, "Ruger-only" .357 ammo is a myth.

You're right. I've been doing a lot of 44 Mag research lately and made the above mistake. Simple mix up. I'll edit to reflect as such.

As far as the please stop posting comment, I rarely ever post on this forum as-is. So, bite me. And, I made no mention of what caliber in the original post, so I wasn't wrong.

 

[BillyMagg]

Forging does not cause a "tighter" grain structure.

Steel used in investment castings will have very coarse grain cause by the temps needed to pour metal. But, that investment casting can be normalized just like a forging to reduce its grain size.

.

If you read my post, I specifically stated that forged steel "has" a tighter grain structure than cast steel.....

and you state that investment "castings" will have a very "coarse" grain,,,

the "forging" of steel will lengthen grain structure, and increase strength and ductility, it will likely require more machining to get it to the shape and dimensions needed.

casting does indeed have a coarser grain structure, and less strength, the advantage being a part that is closer to the shape and dimension you need at a lower cost.

That is specifically why Ruger choose the "lost wax" casting process...

however, I do greatly appreciate the hard work and sacrifices that you have made for our country,,, far more than I ever have?? so respect brother, and since you have STEEL in your "screen name" you likely know far more about steel in general, but I was specifically speaking to characteristics exemplified in forged vs cast...

Dude in your video, "one of the main rules, is that forged is "always gonna be stronger"!

now, please watch your own video, and then watch the Yankee Marshal's video that debunks the myth that Rugers are Stronger than Smith and Wessons,,

so your Dude is actually backing up the fact that a good forging is always going to be stronger than a similar quality casting...

now he does state that a good casting is better than a poor forging,, anyway, please watch the video you cited as a source, he's funny, and honest....

 

[ditto1958]

I wrote a thread on this awhile back. Smith & Wesson and Colt were making DA revolvers way before Ruger was even a company. So, when Bill Ruger decided to try to get his foot in the door of the revolver market, he had both disadvantage and a big advantage.

The disadvantage is obvious- how do you get into a market where two behemoths have been dominating for years? The advantage? He got to start from scratch. He and his engineers came up with a modern design that didn't need all the skilled machining and hand fitting that the Smiths and Colts required. His gun was strong, cheaper to make, and was built like a tank.

I set a Ruger next to a Smith and a Colt, and it's not nearly as beautiful and refined as they are. But it's a tool that does its job very well.

Go on Gunbroker, and find a Model 19. A nice one will likely cost about $750. Meanwhile, a Security-Six the same age will be $400-450. It will do the same as the Smith, and will shoot full boater .357's all day long without wearing out. It will also not be nearly as smooth or pretty.

Which is better? You be the judge...

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

/u/JimMarch's review of the Ruger GP100
u/nabaker


3 million years from now, an intelligent upright descendant of the modern cockroach will be able to dig up a stainless GP100, put new springs in it, roll up some ammo and blow away another intelligent upright cockroach that "did him wrong". true



Seriously, the GP100 is rock-solid tough. It's very similar in size/task/etc. to the L-frame S&Ws like the 686, and about $200 cheaper. The S&W will probably have a slightly better out-of-the-box trigger and might be a hair more accurate, but the differences will be minor.true


The GP100 has no sideplates that can blow out, it has a firm second latch at the crane that locks the cylinder in place out there and is otherwise tougher than a similar S&W. The GP100 was also designed to be field-stripped by the user. The manual tells you how, and under one of the grip panels is a steel rod meant to be used as a takedown tool. This can be a major advantage in rough country or anywhere you're around salt water; if the gun is exposed to mud, seawater or anything else nasty you can do a full takedown and cleanup before any damage sets in.I am unaware of ANY instance where a S&W sie plate "blew out" please give cited examples. Regarding the takedown of Rugers, unless you have a metal object to push on the spring of the Ruger all you are gonna do with that little pin is to take out the hammer. BUt if you have a screwdriver or something to push in the spring, I agree that the takedown of the Ruger for cleaning is superior than the Smith-but you are stil not gonna dissassemble the trigger group in the wild now are you

Full takedown of an S&W is a lot messier and S&W considers it a "gunsmith proposition". You CAN do it, but you need more tools and a decent book on S&W innards. Ruger on the other hand tells you right in the manual how to do a total takedown, and if you lose that the manual is available as a free PDF on Ruger's site.true but the only really specialized tool you really need for a Smith is that little thingy for the rebound spring thingy

This easy takedown also means it can be home-brew gunsmithed, including full spring kit upgrades to help the trigger pull or fine-polishing the SIDES of the hammer and trigger surfaces inside, to reduce friction (again, improving the trigger feel for cheap, just some "sweat equity" involved). DO NOT mess with the sear surfaces (the places where the hammer and trigger make contact) unless you know what you're doing.true

A spring kit will include two or three levels of mainspring tension. The best possible accuracy happens when you use a medium or even heavy spring and mirror-polish the gun's innards until you get a dead smooth feel. The best DA revolver trigger I've ever felt period was a GP100 that had lived as a range rental for about a decade, had seen a really massive round count, was still in perfect shape and just from repeated fire, had a dead smooth trigger people would pay big bucks for if applied to anything else.opinion but not unsubstantiated however unable to ascertain the truthfullness or lack thereof

The GP100 is the smallest "real 357" in that you can shoot balls-out full-house stuff by Buffalo Bore, Grizzly Ammo or Doubletap Ammo in large doses if you want, and be able to control that sort of load one-handed. Any smaller size 357 and trust me, you can't.true as far as the one handed issue but using two hands one CAN shoot these loads out of a Smith-you just have to use two hands and have a high tolerance for pain

Loves my Smiths. Period. But if I had to only have oneonly have one it would be a GP100. 7 shot. Hi glow front sight. Small original grips.

 

[steelslaver]

Castings do cause large grain structure to, most of which can be reset to a smaller size with a normalization structure just like used on a forging. Castings used to have more inclusions and voids than forgings, but modern casting methods for stuff like this occur using a induction oven in an inert atmosphere and some sort of method to positively fill the mold, centrifugal force by spinning, positive pressure etc. Also, voids and inclusions are now easily detected and rejected by computer controlled ultra sonic testing. Casting has gone a LONG way. One of my cousins job is running the final machining in a casting shop. Nuke subs, airplanes are running a lot of castings in place that used to be forged.

Plus, forging material begins life as a casting. Complete with every thing that can be wrong with any casting (voids inclusions etc). The forging will disperse these more evenly through out the final piece. It does not get rid of them, just break them up and spread them out unless they happen to get forced to the edge that gets machined off. You can have a forging that ends up with a serious flaw from the original casting. I have a bunch of high grade German D2. It was run through multiple stamping, then rolling operations (forging), yet I found a flaw in a piece I was finishing into a blade that was visible to my eye and allowed me to easily snap the blade at that point.

Yes in general most forgings are slightly stronger in some aspects than good castings. Forging usually have better longitudinal strength, but casting shave higher notch strength. Any notches or hard angles on your revolvers?

 

[Rick_A]

Like most unsubstantiated info on the interwebs, that original statement is a little tough to swallow. 1500 rounds?

 

[gsn]

For those of us who ride, lets jump in the way-back machine and re live a very special time in the history of Sturm Ruger and Company- circa '94 ; anyone else 'member?