S&W Hand Ejector - 2nd model with mods?

[CKPOMEH]

Hi gang -

Note: The site won't let me upload pics for some reason, so I am sharing through my google drive below:

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I just picked what I believe to be a S&W Hand Ejector 2nd model in 44 special. The gun has some unique features that I noticed that were not noted in the Standard Catalog, so hoping someone here may have some info.

Assembly number is 83269, stamped on the yoke and on the frame under the yoke.

Cylinder number is #18834. There are no SN on the bottom of the barrel, nor on the bottom of the butt. The butt does have a laniard ring hole but not ring.

On the frame under the yoke there is an eagle with S2 underneath it. See the picture. Possible 1917 with deleted SNs? Were there any 1917's in 44 Special?

The barrel may not be original to the gun? - see the S&W markings - the '&' is not the older 'lazy' & style that I would expect from this era. Barrel has no markings on the top with the patents, etc..just plain top.

Front sight: see the raised ramp on the barrel where the front sight is pinned. Is this a gold bead front sight? Have never seen one like this before - both the pinned piece, and the raised part (which is also checkered)!

Rear sight has some markings (see pics)- Le's One S.A. in three lines, just next to the screw. Rear sight has a third screw on the leaf of the rear sight - what is this screw for?

Left side of the frame, close to the butt has some markings:
459 4 72, diamond S (same diamond as on the rear sight). No serial number there either.

Stock are not original to the gun, obviously so nothing to be learnt from those...

I assume the gun may have been back to the factory for some work (the diamond with S stampings), potentially even a refinish, and the sights are 'aftermarket' but I would love to hear some of the member's thoughts.

The revolver came as part of a very nice S&W collection the LGS had acquired. Most guns were ANIB from the late 70s / early 80s. Several 48-4s, 18-4s, 17-4, 19-4s,67-1, 586 / 686 no dash-es, even some rare ones - model 520, 641, etc...(just context of its whereabouts). This one came with a non-original one piece box from the 80s.

Any insights and info would be appreciated. It is such a great looking revolver - nothing like an older N frame...

Thanks in advance and cheers!

 

[CKPOMEH]

Trying to add pictures via a reply:

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[DARE]

Here is my 2nd Model #26184. Shipped June 1926. Serial number should be on the butt, the cylinder and under the barrel. Numbers on the yoke are assembly numbers.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Looks like someone made a target revolver out of parts. The frame may be a commercial 1917 but it is hard to tell since the serial number has been removed. The 83269 number is an assembly number, not the serial. So, the frame has no valid serial number. The sights are not S&W but I don't recognize the manufacturer. Is there a serial number on the rear face of the cylinder? Does it match the serial under the barrel?


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[CKPOMEH]

Here is my 2nd Model #26184. Shipped June 1926. Serial number should be on the butt, the cylinder and under the barrel. Numbers on the yoke are assembly numbers.

Thanks for the pics, very helpful! The number on the cylinder is 18834. There are no numbers on the butt nor under the barrel.

I researched some more about the stamps and a dimond stamp (which this gun has) would indicate a barrel swap (from what I read). The barrel is newer, perhaps they did not stamp the SN when they replaced it.

As to why no SN on the butt - no clue!

 

[CKPOMEH]

Looks like someone made a target revolver out of parts. The frame may be a commercial 1917 but it is hard to tell since the serial number has been removed. The 83269 number is an assembly number, not the serial. So, the frame has no valid serial number. The sights are not S&W but I don't recognize the manufacturer. Is there a serial number on the rear face of the cylinder? Does it match the serial under the barrel?


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Thanks, Wiregrassguy - yes, you are correct - the frame does not have a valid serial number. The number on the cylinder is 18834.

Thanks for the instructions on the pics - for some reason the dialog box to upload photos is not working for me. I just tried again uploading the pic of the cylinder # above.

I read up on the 1917 in the S&W Catalog and you may be right - the frame does have signs of a commercial 1917 - the eagle with S2 would be a 1917, and the S&W marking on the left side would be a commercial 1917 variant, per the book.

Wouldn't a commerical 1917 have a SN on those two spots? Perhaps someone erased them? The bottom of the barrel seems to have been filed when I compared to the pics posted above...

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Wouldn't a commerical 1917 have a SN on those two spots? Perhaps someone erased them? The bottom of the barrel seems to have been filed when I compared to the pics posted above...

All S&W N frame revolvers of that era have serial numbers under the barrel, on the rear face of the cylinder and on the bottom of the butt frame as well as in a couple other places. Look through the cylinder chambers to the back of the yoke arm and see if the serial number there matches the cylinder. After WWI, S&W used frames produced for the military to assemble commercial guns. Your frame could have been for a commercial 1917 or for a 2nd Model .44 Hand Ejector. All we can say is that it was likely originally assembled in the 1920 decade. It is unfortunate that someone removed the butt serial since it makes the gun illegal under current BATFE regs. That topic has been beaten like a dead horse so I won't belabor it.

 

[CKPOMEH]

All S&W N frame revolvers of that era have serial numbers under the barrel, on the rear face of the cylinder and on the bottom of the butt frame as well as in a couple other places. Look through the cylinder chambers to the back of the yoke arm and see if the serial number there matches the cylinder. After WWI, S&W used frames produced for the military to assemble commercial guns. Your frame could have been for a commercial 1917 or for a 2nd Model .44 Hand Ejector. All we can say is that it was likely originally assembled in the 1920 decade. It is unfortunate that someone removed the butt serial since it makes the gun illegal under current BATFE regs. That topic has been beaten like a dead horse so I won't belabor it.

Thanks, Wiregrassguy - great info! Yes, the serial number on the rear of the yoke matches the serial number on the rear of cylinder (18834), and the assembly number on the yoke (83269) matches the assembly number on frame under the yoke, so this would establish a frame number to be the 18834 from the above via the reference above.

Are there any other areas on the frame where the SN may be stamped so I can look at those and see if I can find an actual SN stamped on the frame?

Based on the eagle with S2 stamp under it, I think it is more likely a 1917 frame that was later sold as a Hand Ejector with the 44 SPL cartridge. BTW the cylinder took the 44 SPL but did not take the 45 ACP, so unless there were 44 SPL 1917s, this is most likely the case I described above, right?

Thanks again, man - you have been so helpful in researching this old gun!

 

[dtune]

CKPOMEH, by changing browsers, when viewing this website, may allow you to use the dialog box to post pictures properly.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Yes, the serial number on the rear of the yoke matches the serial number on the rear of cylinder (18834), and the assembly number on the yoke (83269) matches the assembly number on frame under the yoke, so this would establish a frame number to be the 18834 from the above via the reference above.

Yes, that is likely the case. Assembly numbers were used to keep fitted parts together. The side plate is fitted to the frame and should have the same assembly number stamped inside. Also, the original grips would have had the serial number penciled or stamped on the back of the right panel. Your grips are not original and date to 1968 or later.

 

[DARE]

Have read that some 2nd Models were made from left over 1917 frames and had military markings.

 

[Kinman]

My 2nd Model was sent back to the factory twice in the same year, once for target sight installation and once that was approved, sent back for a complete refinish. It is one of my favorites and does shoot better than I am capable.

 

[Muley Gil]

Have read that some 2nd Models were made from left over 1917 frames and had military markings.

This is correct. A lot of 2nd Model .44s have the eagle head stamps and lanyard loops (or the plugged holes.)

 

[handejector]

#18834 definitely left as a 44 because that number has to be in the 44 number series. Commercial 1917s continued the numbers attained in the military series and would be 6 digits.
God only knows what work the Service Dept did as signified by the Diamond S on the grip frame. The barrel was not fitted by the Factory. The crudely filed notches for the mushroom knob show that, and they would have numbered it.

The rear sight is marked "Marble's".
The front ramp may be as well.
Marble's also made Sheard gold beads like yours.

 

[CKPOMEH]

#18834 definitely left as a 44 because that number has to be in the 44 number series. Commercial 1917s continued the numbers attained in the military series and would be 6 digits.
God only knows what work the Service Dept did as signified by the Diamond S on the grip frame. The barrel was not fitted by the Factory. The crudely filed notches for the mushroom knob show that, and they would have numbered it.

The rear sight is marked "Marble's".
The front ramp may be as well.
Marble's also made Sheard gold beads like yours.

Thanks, Handejector!

All good points, and yes - this is for sure a 44 SPL frame - the number 4 on the left side of the grip frame indicates this (read it in the SWSC).

Also, the diamond S on the left side of the frame indicates re-work at the factory and a refinish in Standard blue, and the 459 (also there) indicates the month and year (April 1959) - all that was also in the SWSC.

The only stamp I have not figured out from the left bottom of the grip frame is 72. Any guesses on what it might mean?

As to the sights, I have to admit that the sight picture resembles a rifle - very thin and crisp (due to the gold?) front sights in between the rear U notch. Definitely someone was looking to make a marksman version of the revolver.

Researching this old N frame has been fun! Thank you all for all the inputs - they were instrumental into getting to the details below - I appreciate you all!

 

[CKPOMEH]

Yes, that is likely the case. Assembly numbers were used to keep fitted parts together. The side plate is fitted to the frame and should have the same assembly number stamped inside. Also, the original grips would have had the serial number penciled or stamped on the back of the right panel. Your grips are not original and date to 1968 or later.

Yep, I read there is another assemply number on the backside of the side plate but I am afraid I will scratch up the screws if I were to try to take it off...

I also read there should be another SN on the backside of the extractor star, I will check this location as well. Unfortunately, this is still not part of the actual frame...

Grips must have their own story - they are marked as M58, there is a name with SSN on them, and the N272188 SN (of the M58 I presume they came from). I did not post due to the SSN on them...Most likely grips from a service revolver from one of the PDs that used the M58 back in the 70s.

Cheers!

 

[Retired W4]

If someone was dumb enough to put their name and SSN on those stocks and then sold it out I would not worry too much about protecting them.