S&W M&P 9 responsible for rise in shootings?

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From the article:

"In October, a deputy tripped over a stroller and fired a bullet through the wall of a house in Huntington Park. Last November, a deputy in Lancaster shot himself in the thigh while pulling his gun. In December, a deputy in Compton accidentally pulled the trigger on his gun as he approached a suspected stolen car and a bullet hit the door. "

What part of "finger off the trigger until you intend to fire" are they not training?
 
Old cop said:
This sounds more like a training issue and not a gun problem.
Click to expand...

Yup. Tripped over the stroller I will give the benifit of the doubt because we don't really know the whole story perhaps, but shooting yourself in the leg is pretty clearly a case of finger on the trigger when it shouldn't be.

Out of the box, a M&P no doubt has a lighter trigger than the Beretta's double action, but it is FAR from a hair trigger, as numerous threads on this forum will attest. But leave it to the press to dig up a story like this.
 
Range time for cops is always gonna be minimal. Cost of ammo. Taking guys off the street. I don't think I shot more than 400 rounds a year at qualification.

Cops take their guns out way more than civilians. And they do it under stress which civilians don't do. For this reason I have always said that striker fired guns are poor choices for police departments.
 
This is why we have this trouble in CA. People here are quick to blame the equipment, the system, the city, anything but the individual.

Then we have to deal with stupidity like this:
Freedom's Teeth said:
No one in CA should be allowed to have access to firearms, matches or sharp objects. The same holds true for NY and Washington D. C.
Click to expand...
I notice you don't list where you live.
 
Yup, them M&P's are faulty, and should be sent to me for disposal right away :D.

"Hoot": This is my safety, sir.
[He holds up his index finger and bends motions as if squeezing a trigger and then walks off]
 
Maybe if a particular police department has several NDS, it should issue full flap holsters like the UM 84 or older European police holsters?
 
Did you read the article? It clearly states that with the Beretta 92 they were trained to ride the trigger. KCSO had more ND's before the standardization on Glock 22 & 23's in the early 90's. Prior to that the policy was pretty liberal and we had more with 1911's than anything else. The transition for us was basically 3 days & around 1K rounds down range, BTW I went through in May 1993. LASO has a training issue & nothing else.
 
riding a 15lb trigger is different than riding an 6lb trigger. i am no professional but i do not ride Glock or M&P triggers until it's a done deal that i am destroying what is in front of the barrel. i will ride a Sig or M9 bang switch.
 
From the article...

With the advent of the new weapon, deputies are obtaining better scores at the firing range and more recruits are passing the firearms test. The percentage of women recruits who failed that test has fallen from 6.4 percent to less than 1 percent, the Times said.
Click to expand...

Seems like a good reason to switch to the M&P.
 
"Because of its easier pull, the Smith & Wesson is easier to shoot accurately and its hand grip comes in three sizes, making it easier to use for people with small hands.

With the advent of the new weapon, deputies are obtaining better scores at the firing range and more recruits are passing the firearms test."

is this a paid advertisement by Smith & Wesson:D
 
Negative consequences from the use or handling of any inanimate object is never the fault of the object. Yes, some objects can be easier to handle or use incorrectly or unsafely than others, but it is the user who is responsible for how things are used. Good training makes a difference for sure, even with something as simple as a hammer, but the ND's mentioned here or anywhere else are not the fault of the gun. They are the fault of the one or ones who touch them, ignorantly or carelessly, and without following the rules that apply to avoid such things and/or to prevent negative consequences if an ND actually occurs. If the OP's title statement is actually true, then I own several spoons that are totally responsible for the fact that any scale I step up on registers weight that is not commensurate with my height!!!!! For the record, no spoon has ever placed anything in my mouth unless either I or someone else picked it up and put it in my mouth with food in it!!!
 
Some years ago I thought a trigger shoe was a good idea to help with a heavy double action only trigger. I have a scar on the side of my leg reminding me not to do that again! Loudest shot I've ever heard. I couldn't believe I let it happen and everyone that knew me was shocked, too because they all knew my attention to gun safety.
 
kbm6893 said:
Range time for cops is always gonna be minimal. Cost of ammo. Taking guys off the street. I don't think I shot more than 400 rounds a year at qualification.

Cops take their guns out way more than civilians. And they do it under stress which civilians don't do. For this reason I have always said that striker fired guns are poor choices for police departments.
Click to expand...

Groo here
This is why I support a return to revolvers for most cops.
As most cops are not gun people and think the gun is just
a heavy part of their uniform, the simplest action type is best.
A 6-7-8 shot revolver in 9mm [ with moon clips]
would fill the bill well.
The "spray and pray" mind set would be broken,
the long rolling trigger pull would be safer and require the
shooter to pay attention.
The auto is for experienced shooters who will train and pay attention.
The revolver is for everyone else.
I carried both but shot with many I would not want with an auto,
but were passable and safe with a revolver.
The second thing is to look at the holster
that is used .
The Level 2 and level3 holsters are questionable, as
some require the trigger finger to be used as a Blackhawk [BAD]
or are so hard to get out that the shooter will try to draw early
or defeat some or all the retention systems.
A simple strap or thumb break is still the most reliable.
{ Rant Over Now]
 
Mtnfolk325 said:
Did you read the article? It clearly states that with the Beretta 92 they were trained to ride the trigger.
Click to expand...
Yes, I did read it, did you? Nowhere in the article does it day they were trained to "ride the trigger. " What it does say is that they were trained to have their finger on the trigger when they were on the target. That's a far cry from riding the trigger which means keeping your finger on the trigger all the time. Even work an M&P, the trigger finger should be on the trigger when on target.
 
I own a 92 FS and an M&P and in my 40 plus years of shooting I have never ridden the trigger on any gun I have owned. No I'm not a cop but my God why would anyone train to ride a trigger. Even with my 92 FS and its 500 pound trigger, unless I intend to destroy my target, I do not touch the trigger. Case closed.
 
Agree with Rastoff. Nothing like messing up a good sight picture with moving your finger to the trigger. If you committed to firing I would think getting your finger on the trigger as soon as the muzzle is pointed at the target and you are going to shoot.

As far as LOE training goes I would think a professional would learn how best to use their tools that they carry everyday to protect you and me and our love one. That and to be sure they could protect them selves with those tools. Ok I will get off my soapbox. Don
 
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