S&W Service Failure

[ruggyh]

Called S&W today to find out the 1 of 1500 series number that was not put on this 460 Bone Collector.

Provided him with the SKU # (170345) and serial number of the gun in question.

Question S&W asked- Am I sure it is a Bone collector.
I replied yes, as marked on the Box end label.

He makes some inquires and comes back on line stated they would need the gun to determine what the series number is.

What / why do they actually need the gun in hand?

Big fail on their part not to be able to look the serial number up and provide the serialized xxx of 1500 number.

He did say they would put it on the gun along with the missing Bone Collector decal if the gun was returned.

If they cant tell me the number how they going to put it on the gun?

Big fail on their part and big disappointment on something that should be simple.

Good luck and be safe
Ruggy

 

[Ashlander]

The guy in Customer Service is not reasonably going to have access to the necessary production records and list/s of serial numbers sufficient to answer your question. Nobody thinks S&W did a non-stop production run of 1500 guns of limited demand, so these guns were probably produced over a period of months and who knows where those records are (not everything is on a computer)? I don't believe a guy in Customer Service can be expected to demand a Productive Manager or Assistant to reorder his day to track down that information because a guy on the phone wants an instant answer? That might sound a bit harsh, but you get my drift. And since you would have to send in your gun anyway to have it marked, then what's the problem?

 

[b_san]

To be honest it looks better as it sits than the way it was supposed to be.

 

[ruggyh]

The guy in Customer Service is not reasonably going to have access to the necessary production records and list/s of serial numbers sufficient to answer your question.

He made a call(s) while I was on hold, surely some one there has a list and could of provide the information. The list is short.

Nobody thinks S&W did a non-stop production run of 1500 guns of limited demand, so these guns were probably produced over a period of months and who knows where those records are (not everything is on a computer)?

You don't think their production are computerized. REALLY!! The box end labels are machine printed they don't hand enter the data. Their records are computerized.

I don't believe a guy in Customer Service can be expected to demand a Productive Manager or Assistant to reorder his day to track down that information because a guy on the phone wants an instant answer? That might sound a bit harsh, but you get my drift. And since you would have to send in your gun anyway to have it marked, then what's the problem?

Did not demand anything. I ask a reasonable question and expected them to at least say they would email the information when they had time. Not be told they needed the actual gun to get the number.

No one said I wanted to have the Serialization added to the gun or the decal. Just would like the number.

At this point I doubt they would/could get the correct number.

The run of has been completed by the factory per S&W and gun has been removed from their web as an offering.

The gun serial numbers are standard factory numbering and are not consecutive and are not even in order of the One of 1500 numbers applied to the guns.

Respectively,
Ruggy

 

[Muss Muggins]

So if you don't want it stamped on the pistol, why does it matter to you? I certainly wouldn't take your word for it on a trade or sale . . .

 

[ruggyh]

So if you don't want it stamped on the pistol, why does it matter to you? I certainly wouldn't take your word for it on a trade or sale . . .

Because it is and should be part of the gun. I believe it is owed to me as I purchased the gun.

You wouldn't have to believe me it should be confirmable by S&W.

Ruggy

 

[Muss Muggins]

Because it is and should be part of the gun. I believe it is owed to me as I purchased the gun.

You wouldn't have to believe me it should be confirmable by S&W.

Ruggy

But you don't want it stamped on the gun?

 

[ruggyh]

All ready made that clear in the previous post.

 

[Muss Muggins]

All ready made that clear in the previous post.

I know. Smith and Wesson offered you a very generous resolution, and you refused. I don't understand it all, but I guess I don't have to . . .

 

[labworm]

One sold for $1589.00 at GunsAmerica

Description:

The S&W 460VXR has the highest muzzle velocity of any production revolver on earth. The Performance Center line from S&W are top performers with hand fitted parts and finely tuned for precision.

The Revolver comes with a Butler Creek Ultra Sling, a S&W Performance Center padded soft case, trigger lock keys, and sling swivels. An action lock, fired case and all factory papers are included.

Features:

• Muzzle Brake • Chrome Teardrop Hammer • Unfluted Cylinder • Limited Edition • PC Tuned Action • ChromeTrigger • Fiber Optic Front Sight • Gun Rug and Sling Included

Not sure but I think S&W had a run of 500 without the bone collector identification. Maybe that is what you have?

 

[ruggyh]

I know. Smith and Wesson offered you a very generous resolution, and you refused. I don't understand it all, but I guess I don't have to . . .

Send the gun to them to get a number is not generous.
It is part of what I purchased.

Why not just tell me the number? no cost to them at all


FYI to all I have no problem with the gun it shoots and performs well.

Not sure but I think S&W had a run of 500 without the bone collector identification. Maybe that is what you have?

Those were the Ellet Brothers Distributors guns, they actually did 2 separate runs of 500, SKU 170276 and 1700287, and no they are not the same.

Be safe
Ruggy

 

[Snallygaster]

I'd buy one of these if I could find one without the stupid bone collector graphics.

 

[ShelbyV8]

Did they offer shipping?

 

[labworm]

Why not take it back to the FFL you purchased it from and get some answers from him? Any one can alter a label.

The picture you are showing, was that taken by you or one off the internet somewhere?

I am really surprised that S&W doesn't have any idea as to what they are selling, just a terrible thought.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I am really surprised that S&W doesn't have any idea as to what they are selling, just a terrible thought.

I just did a quick search. In the third quarter of 2015, S&W posted $143 million in sales. One or two are going to slip by . . .

 

[ruggyh]

Why not take it back to the FFL you purchased it from and get some answers from him? Any one can alter a label.

The picture you are showing, was that taken by you or one off the internet somewhere?

I am really surprised that S&W doesn't have any idea as to what they are selling, just a terrible thought.

The gun was purchased via the web.
The picture posted is of my gun.
The label has not been altered

This gun is different from all other 460 models produced and easily identified from all other.

I just took this picture of a Bone Collector and the previously mentioned Ellet Brother model here for comparison, with the marking and logo.

I have 3 other Bone Collectors- I know what one looks like.

 

[Ashlander]

Ruggy: Last May you posted a previous thread about this gun with the same photo. In a posting dated last July you wrote as follows:

"Missing the numbering on the barrel and the logo make this gun special. Sent for a letter."

So what's the scoop on that? You sent for the letter -- what's it say?

 

[scooter123]

I suspect that what you have is a Bone Collector that was an Overrun. So, what is an Overrun. Pretty simple. Revolvers are largely hand made and people do make mistakes. So, in order to insure that the full 1500 of that special edition will be met S&W made some spares just in case a frame cracked when the barrel was installed or some other failure in manufacture that can't be repaired. As a result S&W has some spares of a special series that cant actually part of the official Special Edition because that sequence has been filled. What do you expect S&W to do with these spares, melt them down in a furnace? Not at S&W, those spares will be sold to various distributors. End result is that there are 38 special model 19's in circulation that were overruns and likely some Bone Collectors that were overruns. As for what would S&W want to actually have your revolver in hand to identify exactly what it is, that is probably because S&W placed a somewhat "hidden" identifier somewhere on the revolver for those guns that were technically overruns. As for having a Bone Collector that is not part of the 1 of 1500 series, IMO that aspect will have absolutely no impact on the value of the gun. Because S&W has done a nearly uncountable number of special editions and the impact of these on collect-ability and value has been nill. What matters in terms of collecting is the model, feature set, condition, and rarity. Looks to me like you have all those aspects fulfilled so I don't think you should be at all concerned that your particular sample is probably an overrun.

 

[ruggyh]

Check cashed - no letter- told to be patient. ( I actually did not sent for the letter until September when I return to the States)

Scooter123 - I suspect that what you have is a Bone Collector that was an Overrun. So, what is an Overrun. Pretty simple. Revolvers are largely hand made and people do make mistakes.

The SN number would put the gun between 400 and 500, they just finished the run this past month, I got the gun in May of last year

I have collected 58 Bone collector serial numbers with series number.
the earliest is 55 with CXP prefix and the last is 1438 with CZC prefix.
The gun in question has a CXW prefix.

That pretty much puts the overrun theory to rest.


Ruggy

 

[Club Gun Fan]

Why not take it back to the FFL you purchased it from and get some answers from him? Any one can alter a label.

The picture you are showing, was that taken by you or one off the internet somewhere?

I am really surprised that S&W doesn't have any idea as to what they are selling, just a terrible thought.

Really? I'll send you a box and you alter the label. Sometimes some people open their mouths before they think.

 

[Ashlander]

So rather than be patient, you called the customer service rep and then complained about his service when he could not provide the info that the company historian was having trouble finding. Did you mention to him that you had already sent for a letter?

 

[ruggyh]

Really? I'll send you a box and you alter the label. Sometimes some people open their mouths before they think.

and you must be one of them.

WOW another conspiracy theorist.

Look at the gun pictured in the first post, you don't need the Box end label to see it is a Bone Collector.

If you THINK it is not a Bone Collector then what is it?

If anyone has a idea of how the series number can be obtained please PM me

Thank
Ruggy

 

[labworm]

Really? I'll send you a box and you alter the label. Sometimes some people open their mouths before they think.

I fully agree with you.

 

[Muss Muggins]

If anyone has a idea of how the series number can be obtained please PM me

Thank
Ruggy

No need for a PM. Smith & Wesson already told how to do it, and said they'd stamp it on the pistol . . . I'm not sure why this is so hard?

 

[ruggyh]

If you guys are are going to pick and choice then at least show the correct style of Box label used for Bone Collectors.

I did not say it was not possible to replicate/ forge a label. Everyone has a printer and scanner today.
I stated the box label is not a forgery.

You have not even seen it and you are assuming.

You ignore the gun itself i suppose you think it is also a forgery.

If you have something of value to add please do so, if it speculation and assumption please don't

 

[Ashlander]

Earlier today when I suggested that the Customer Service Rep might not have access to the information your were looking for (the number of your gun in the series of 1500) because it might not be on his computer -- you dismissed my suggestion out of hand. But now that you have posted the box label, I renew my concern. Why would the Customer Service rep's computer have any more info on it than the label? I think you gave him a bad rap.

And in regard to Scooter's suggestion that your gun is an over-run -- well, it might be now. If the person in charge of affixing the series numbers on the guns recorded the serial numbers as he or she went, then your gun was surely passed over. Of course, I don't know that's how it was done, but I cannot imagine how else unless human beings have been entirely removed from the process.

 

[ruggyh]

And in regard to Scooter's suggestion that your gun is an over-run -- well, it might be now. If the person in charge of affixing the series numbers on the guns recorded the serial numbers as he or she went, then your gun was surely passed over. Of course, I don't know that's how it was done, but I cannot imagine how else unless human beings have been entirely removed from the process.

Per his suggestion production is not continuous (and I agree ) that means they would have to track where they are with the serialization process so they could resume at the proper place. That means some sort of records would be required.
I believe this would have been no different if they were produced in a week. These are Performance Center Guns and have a bit of hand assembly.

If the gun is an over from the middle of the production cycle I am all the more disappointed in S&W. The gun was advertised as a limited to 1500 run- then all owners have been misled.

If anyone is interested in the Bone Collector SN collected to date or would like to contribute PM me.

Ruggy

Ruggy

 

[Kernel Crittenden]

.....This gun is different from all other 460 models produced and easily identified from all other......

Interesting Smith. I haven't followed X-frames too closely. A few questions......

Is that a LPA rear sight?

Does the comp detach (I assume it does), and does that style have a name?​

The gun's a "Pinto". Blue frame and stainless cylinder. There's a special class of S&W collector that collect pinto guns. I wonder if this one is on their radar?

Send it back and get it the way you want. It's like Burger King. Have it your way. They left out the pickle. Send it back and have them make it right. Even though not every one likes pickles.

 

[ruggyh]

Interesting Smith. I haven't followed X-frames too closely. A few questions......Is that a LPA rear sight?

Yes that is an LPA sight on the top gun- owner installed.

Does the comp detach (I assume it does), and does that style have a name?

No the the comp is fixed, and not removable and the style of the gun is Bone Collector

[quote =Kernel Crittenden;138959465]Send it back and get it the way you want. It's like Burger King. Have it your way. They left out the pickle. Send it back and have them make it right. Even though not every one likes pickles.[/quote]

All I am interested is is knowing the Series number of the gun which was supposed to on the shroud as seen in the above photo (top gun), just information that was supposed to be there and is missing.

Ruggy

 

[AveragEd]

I'm not being argumentative and you could write what I know about X-frame guns on your thumbnail and have room left over. That said, if I read "labworm's" post correctly, isn't your gun missing at least the unfluted cylinder and chromed hammer and trigger that is supposedly part of the Bone Collector package? I may have misread something therein so please forgive me if that is the case.

Regardless, I have one Smith & Wesson that was part of an intentional limited run (as opposed to ones that just don't sell well and have abbreviated production lives), a 686-3 National Match that is marked "1 of 500." If that gun was not marked correctly, I likely would not have paid the amount I shelled out for it as that marking's absence could very well affect its future value. Some collectors might pay a premium for a mis-marked gun just as coin collectors do but the average person probably would not.

Ed