S&W Shield One Piece Guide Rods!

[djdig]

I sent my old guide rod to ssguiderods.com and they prototyped and made me a one piece guide rod using my spring from factory guide rod. I am having my 2nd one made for my other S&W shield.

If you visit their facebook shows tells you about it, they just finished it last week.

https://www.facebook.com/StainlessSteelGuideRods?ref=profile

 

[SpringGunTunes]

Why would you change something so important? S&W spent million$ developing their pistols. Why not trust their design?

 

[djdig]

Why would you change something so important? S&W spent million$ developing their pistols. Why not trust their design?

Because both of mine failed, there are tons of threads about it. Both of mine are from the first batch when they came out. I have replaced guide rods in almost every handgun I own. It is a quick and easy upgrade and in this case fixed a failure on two guns.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I will have to search for threads where people say they failed. I've never heard of this. Interesting though. I would have thought you would need a different spring. I know Wolff offers a new spring for the Colt Delta Elite 10mm if you swap to a one part guide rod.

 

[djdig]

Uses the factory spring, and first thing I did when they failed at range was search here. The small washer/disc that holds the spring in for the smaller side of the guide rod will bend/flex and one of them caused the pistol to stay stuck all the way back after eject. The other one, was stuck half way.

 

[AR-Getsome]

This is a first for me hearing about guide rod springs failing on the shield. I've never had a problem with mine. I wonder if S&W would warranty any issues if any would arise from using the 1 piece guide rod.

 

[Atticaz]

Because both of mine failed, there are tons of threads about it. Both of mine are from the first batch when they came out. I have replaced guide rods in almost every handgun I own. It is a quick and easy upgrade and in this case fixed a failure on two guns.

Ok, so... The question is... How does your Shield shoot now that the guide rod design is changed? looks to me that there would be less tension than the original design? Can you give a review soon and a video of you shooting a few mags through it? I am pretty interested in this, if it does make it run smoother and runs w/o any hiccups.

 

[djdig]

Yeah I am going to make a video with 500rds, and its not the tension its the design of the old shield guide rod if you look at the part that meets up with the barrel on both of mine they are just bent up and not flat anymore.

When I make the video ill put them side by side, etc...

 

[djdig]

Thanks to the great people at SSguiderods.com this is the first version of the one piece SS guide rods for the S&W shield to hit the street. Torture test and video coming this weekend as long as weather stays good.

 

[hokiefyd]

Thank you for posting this. I'm interested in this myself. I've been a Shield owner for only about 3 weeks, and a forum member here for less than that, but there are countless threads about the dual spring assemblies causing binding either when the slide is locked back (locking the pistol open) or when racking the slide and it grinds during the last 1/2" of travel.

I recently replaced the stock 18# recoil spring in my CZ P-09 with an ISMI flat-wound spring for Glocks in the 13# rate. Piece of cake...it shoots much better and it racks much easier. Recoil springs in guns aren't really rocket science. Smith spec'd the rate to accomodate a variety of different ammunition, and the spring has to be light enough to cycle 115 gr (for 9mm versions) reliably and heavy enough to cycle 147 gr or +P round reliably. Those differing ammunition specs place different demands on the recoil springs, and the factory spring is simply a compromise that the engineers felt best fit everybody. If you normally shoot +P or heavy ammunition, you would not want to use a lighter spring, and actually might want to use a HEAVIER spring. If you normally shoot lighter target/SD loads, then you might want to use a LIGHTER (than stock) spring. The ability to change spring rates is a boon to customizing your gun to fit how you shoot. Just like an Apex trigger kit. Smith spent millions developing the Shield's trigger, right? And it works fine for many. But others prefer something different. The availability of aftermarket parts is a great thing in my opinion.

djdig, it looks like it's a captured guide rod with a threaded plug on the end, and that's why they recommend blue thread locker? But it's still a threaded plug, so one would be able to change springs with relative ease to fine-tune the gun.

If I understand you correctly, they just used the factory "outer" spring on this, and it obviously ditches the smaller "inner" spring. So...is the slide easier to rack, and is the binding during the last 1/2" of travel completely gone?

Thanks again for posting. I'm very interested in swapping my RSA for this.

 

[hokiefyd]

Now that a full length guide rod is available, we need to get spring manufacturers to make some flat-wound springs for the Shield.

 

[djdig]

Yes you can buy springs (glock,etc..) and fine tune it if you want, but just the little shooting I did today ... holy hell its night and day difference. Will have a torture test video coming soon though 500rds at the range on my go pro to show performance.

 

[Smitty357]

I dunno but I have over 10k rounds through my Shield .40. Bought it the first day it was released and haven't had a single problem.

Works for me.

 

[NCW Ray]

I would think...and I could be completely wrong, but just looking at the original 2 piece recoil spring assembly I would think it would cost more to manufacture it than a 1 piece. So with that in mind, why did S&W go with a 2 piece if the 1 piece is better and cheaper to make?

 

[djdig]

I am not debating S&W production. Both of my shields are from the first batch run, what I am saying.

Upgrading to single piece guide rods is a normal thing for MANY guns, just look at galloway percision, apex tactical, powder percision for xd,xds,xdm's...etc...

The cycling is so much cleaner, and both of mine have failed due to the rearward washer of the guide rod that sits on the barrel folding up due to use, and held the action open.

 

[JeffShrugged]

The Shield guide rod does seem to be the potential source of sporadic problems. I will be watching and waiting. I want to make sure this new guide rod does not introduce new, unanticipated problems.

 

[hokiefyd]

I would think...and I could be completely wrong, but just looking at the original 2 piece recoil spring assembly I would think it would cost more to manufacture it than a 1 piece. So with that in mind, why did S&W go with a 2 piece if the 1 piece is better and cheaper to make?

This is my own personal (and uneducated) opinion. It seems that with the factory recoil spring assembly, the small inner spring doesn't come into play until the last inch or so of travel. I can feel it in my slide, and it's a different feeling than the binding you get in the last 1/4". You can rack the slide back and towards the end, it feels like an extra "cushion".

My opinion is that the dual recoil spring assemblies are designed to reduce the effort it takes to rack the slide by making the "primary" spring (the larger outer spring) lighter. Then the "secondary" spring (the smaller inner spring) can be made much heavier to help alleviate frame battering from hotter ammunition loads. The full-size M&P and the compact M&P pistols don't use dual recoil spring assemblies; they use conventional single recoil springs. I believe that the smaller nature of the Shield is what compelled Smith to use a dual spring design in these...again, to handle the wide range of ammo that could be used. The full-size and compact M&Ps have larger slides that can be easier racked (because of the increased purchase on them), so the need for a light spring for slide operation isn't quite as critical there.

Dual recoil spring assemblies don't exactly have a perfectly clean reliability record. Many people attribute problems with 4th generation Glocks to the change to a dual recoil spring assembly (from the 3rd generation's conventional single spring). And just from my very short time here, I've read countless accounts of Smith replacing the recoil assemblies for Shield owners (and sometimes the replacement springs are not 100% either).

I'm kind of surprised at the reception this has received. This board in general seems very quick to recommend Apex trigger parts to improve the trigger system, even though the stock parts work just fine. And Apex parts are proven; I get that. I think that with some more time and experience, folks will see that the dual recoil spring design leaves a lot of area for improvement (or at least optimization for each shooter's situation) and this will eventually become part of a "gotta do it" modification list like the Apex trigger parts seem to be.

 

[JeffShrugged]

Do the 9mm and .40 cal Shields use the same (interchangeable) spring? Or are there two different versions?

 

[hokiefyd]

Brownells sells recoil spring calibration kits for the full-size M&Ps, and I look forward to the day when we'll be able to buy the same for our Shields:

SMITH & WESSON M&P RECOIL SPRINGS | Brownells

That's an example of how common it is to swap different recoil springs to tune your gun to how you shoot. This will now be possible with our Shields if and when the aftermarket starts producing different weights of recoil springs (now that we have the option of tuning it ourselves).

 

[scribbly1]

This is my own personal (and uneducated) opinion. It seems that with the factory recoil spring assembly, the small inner spring doesn't come into play until the last inch or so of travel. I can feel it in my slide, and it's a different feeling than the binding you get in the last 1/4". You can rack the slide back and towards the end, it feels like an extra "cushion".



My opinion is that the dual recoil spring assemblies are designed to reduce the effort it takes to rack the slide by making the "primary" spring (the larger outer spring) lighter. Then the "secondary" spring (the smaller inner spring) can be made much heavier to help alleviate frame battering from hotter ammunition loads. The full-size M&P and the compact M&P pistols don't use dual recoil spring assemblies; they use conventional single recoil springs. I believe that the smaller nature of the Shield is what compelled Smith to use a dual spring design in these...again, to handle the wide range of ammo that could be used. The full-size and compact M&Ps have larger slides that can be easier racked (because of the increased purchase on them), so the need for a light spring for slide operation isn't quite as critical there.



Dual recoil spring assemblies don't exactly have a perfectly clean reliability record. Many people attribute problems with 4th generation Glocks to the change to a dual recoil spring assembly (from the 3rd generation's conventional single spring). And just from my very short time here, I've read countless accounts of Smith replacing the recoil assemblies for Shield owners (and sometimes the replacement springs are not 100% either).



I'm kind of surprised at the reception this has received. This board in general seems very quick to recommend Apex trigger parts to improve the trigger system, even though the stock parts work just fine. And Apex parts are proven; I get that. I think that with some more time and experience, folks will see that the dual recoil spring design leaves a lot of area for improvement (or at least optimization for each shooter's situation) and this will eventually become part of a "gotta do it" modification list like the Apex trigger parts seem to be.

I agree totally with this post but I would like to have a spring that mimics the S&W factory springs. They engineered it that way for a reason while still meeting cost criteria etc...


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