Sandy Hook shooting a managed event?

[Joewisc]

Hitler started the Reichstag fire and blamed the commies. His master of propaganda, Joseph Goebbels said, "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over."

When someone "in authority" steps before a microphone to give a press conference, my BS detector goes into full mode. I do not think the full truth about Sandy Hook has emerged. I am not a conspiracy nut, but 40 years in journalism persuaded me to be skeptical about "official sources." The press has always manipulated public opinion to suit its own agendas and there is no doubt that the mainstream media is dominated by liberals who do the bidding of the Obama regime.

By the way, the latest out of the White House is that Obama will use "executive orders" on gun control, once again bypassing Congress, whose constitutional duty is to "advise and consent." I fear for what my beloved country faces in the days, months and years ago. Never has America been so divided since the Civil War. "A house divided cannot stand," said Abe Lincoln.

 

[StatesRightist]

Are we hinting that certain politicians or king makers are ready and able to find assassins to kill a school full of kids to manufacture a excuse to get more gun regulations to get all our guns?
I will admit that has happened since the dawn of time in other countries and is still happening in other places. Its hard to believe such evil is happening here. In the first place this kind of thing is going to happen anyway once in awhile without taking a chance of anyone sticking their neck out in a conspiracy to engineer. What sane person wouldn`t think that they would be eliminated to get rid of the evidence afterward? Oh, thats right, none of these shooters were sane.
King heriod had all male boys eliminated to hold his power. Oswalds last words were, "Im a patsy!" Still, I am not ready to belive anyone in this country would do that.

Yours is a reasoned thought out approach....thinking about it with an open mind is what I endorsed, not the conclusion. Nice post.

 

[StatesRightist]

I've heard that thing about the rifle being in the car too. Would like for someone to definitively say what bullets were used to put this one to rest.

That and some more video/photos/documentation of the event would go along way, I agree.

Narrative only is suspect w/o proof/collaboration, right counselor?

 

[amazingflapjack]

All authority needs to be questioned, in my view, and there is way too much power in the "Media" to think it is beyond manipulation. The Viet Nam War=justified by the hoax that boat fired on one of our ships. The Iraq war-started by a hoax that there were WMD's. There is, of course, much more, but to believe that our bunch all wear white hats is folly, in my view.

 

[Pointshoot]

Joewisc - - - thank you for your last post. It was reasoned and based on personal and historical knowledge. It was appreciated.

 

[feralmerril]

For most of us "normal" thinking people it`s hard to belive people will conspire and work towards results that they probley wont live to see in their lifetimes. Its hard to understand how millionairs and billionairs will donate fortunes of their money to causes when they are in their 80s. That kind of wipes out the idea that many of them do it for moneitary returns. We dont much point that out. Other than low brow non thinking types that live for the moment, most normal people develope core beliefs and philosphys that define "where they are comeing from" and what group of people and political party they will be drawn to. It also seems that when people have a few core beliefs we can accurately predict what they will champion in completely different areas.
For instance overall, usualy a gun enthusiest is also republican, a little to the right of center, a conservatist, against pro choice, anti gay marrage etc.
A gun hater will be to the left of center, most always be democrat, pro choice, pro gay marrage etc. Somehow where they stand with personal religious beliefs will also determine which way they are pulled to but I better leave that one alone.
Of course many people will have shades of gray in each area but overall I think we can agree it runs as I wrote.
The heavy thinkers on each side the spectrum will develope agendas to want to donate and get others to donate for their cause. Most will have a point established and will look for evidence to support their point even before its debated. Killings and other crimes wont stop no matter how many more laws are enacted. Along with that there probley would be much differance in the numbers if we ARMED every one, even if they didnt want a weapon! What would change is each persons personnal space. Some would be able to survive when otherwise they wouldnt.
There would be far less attempts on burgularys, hijackings, armed robberys and just plain hate assualts if the perps thought there was a strong chance the victim may be armed. The gun haters agenda is going to get many more people killed overall. If we are into conspireacy theorys it will get much worse and we will be dead or slaves.
Personnaly, I dont belive these people see themselves as trying to enslave the world but I DO belive they are given their leanings straight from the devil himself to do his work to bring world events to a head.

 

[moosedog]

As a young rookie cop in Detroit back in the 1970s, I took notice that news stories of events that I was personally at were poorly or wrongly reported.
I also noticed that things that should have been in the headlines were back page or never reported. This was a local situation, and local news outlets and there was (still is) an attempt to make the City of Detroit appear better and safer than it actually was.

Fast forward to almost 35 years later and think of the implications that can occur when that type of news reporting happens on a national scale.

Do I think that there is a conspiracy to shape public opinion, misinform people, cover up the facts and or omit on purpose? You darn right I do.

Major left wing media is by far our biggest enemy in America today.

 

[Joewisc]

Joewisc - - - thank you for your last post. It was reasoned and based on personal and historical knowledge. It was appreciated.

Thank you and others on this forum for the high level of discourse on the part of most posters. I am 70 years old and love my country but no longer recognize it. I hope that those of you in the new generation won't forget history. "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." ~ Samuel Adams, 1776

 

[A10]

I had a bunch of experience with news media when I was a cop, and they never, ever got the story right. I think a lot of improper reporting happened immediately after the incident, and nothing has been done to correct it in a documented manner. I think a whole bunch of people are rushing to a political conclusion and using this and other events to promote their agenda. I will now self edit, as this is about to turn political on my part, so.....keep yer powder dry.

 

[Rule3]

I do not think there is a "conspiracy" But do we have the whole story and actual facts??

It happened and it's horrible.

It's just that there seems to lack a lot of solid factual information or evidence made available to the public. At least I have not read any either in the paper or on the Web let alone TV news.

Now why this is, I have no idea.?

Same with the Martin case, every day it was changing.

 

[Joewisc]

Someone needs to submit a FOI request for the police reports and court records. Here's one comment I heard today that distorts the facts: "I blame Lanza's mother for taking her autistic son to the shooting range." Was it ever established that Lanza had a mental illness?

 

[LVSteve]

It's definitely hard to just believe what they tell us....

Initial reports I read were that 2 Handguns were used and the Rifle was found in the car....

Note the word I have highlighted above. The media are all about being first, not being correct. Their sources inside law enforcement like the "benefits" they get from the media so no doubt when asked and unable to give clear information, either the source or the media hack make stuff up/fill in the blanks poorly.

I don't believe 10% of the stuff that appears in the media within 24 hours of any major incident/disaster/celebrity pregnancy or whatever because experience shows that it WILL BE WRONG. During this period certain bodies will latch on to information that suits their agenda and run with. When you tell them that the full facts contradict their assertions, you are now part of the conspiracy. In this thread alone Sandy Hook was a set up to ban guns or a set up to boost NRA membership. Puh-leeze!!!

 

[red14]

As a young rookie cop in Detroit back in the 1970s, I took notice that news stories of events that I was personally at were poorly or wrongly reported.
I also noticed that things that should have been in the headlines were back page or never reported. This was a local situation, and local news outlets and there was (still is) an attempt to make the City of Detroit appear better and safer than it actually was.

Fast forward to almost 35 years later and think of the implications that can occur when that type of news reporting happens on a national scale.

Do I think that there is a conspiracy to shape public opinion, misinform people, cover up the facts and or omit on purpose? You darn right I do.

Major left wing media is by far our biggest enemy in America today.

I am not a former LEO, but I am a youth coach of longstanding in
my community.

I have been interviewed on three occasions. Probably 80% of the
information in the subsequent stories was false. The names were
always wrong, numbers were always exaggerated (wins) and some
things just made up. People who knew me, would ask why I made
those things up. It was embarrassing.

 

[Steve in Vermont]

Thank you and others on this forum for the high level of discourse on the part of most posters. I am 70 years old and love my country but no longer recognize it. I hope that those of you in the new generation won't forget history. "If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." ~ Samuel Adams, 1776

You and I are of the same age. What you said about no longer recognizing this country hit home. It feels as if everything is moving at warp speed. Manners, courtesy, respect, privacy, are now all considered "relative" and looked on as "quaint and old fashion". There is something to be said about having lived in the "old days", good memories. It's sad our grandchildren will never have that experience.

 

[Joewisc]

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

 

[Pointshoot]

Joewisc - thank you for quoting Thomas Jefferson and Sam Adams - - -
The Mind and the Pitbull of the American Revolution.

 

[The Big D]

You are wrong.

Speaking of inventings "facts," Mr. Jefferson NEVER wrote/said those words. That is a FACT.

Be safe.

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

 

[The Big D]

Joewisc is absolutely incorrect re: Mr. Jefferson...perhaps Mr. Adams, too.

Joewisc - thank you for quoting Thomas Jefferson and Sam Adams - - -
The Mind and the Pitbull of the American Revolution.

 

[Joewisc]

Joewisc is absolutely incorrect re: Mr. Jefferson...perhaps Mr. Adams, too.

The quotations are generally attributed to both men. If you have evidence that proves otherwise, I suggest you provide it so we all can stand corrected. There are as many sources that validate the quotes than reject them, by the way.

 

[Joewisc]

You and I are of the same age. What you said about no longer recognizing this country hit home. It feels as if everything is moving at warp speed. Manners, courtesy, respect, privacy, are now all considered "relative" and looked on as "quaint and old fashion". There is something to be said about having lived in the "old days", good memories. It's sad our grandchildren will never have that experience.

Good to know there are others who feel the same sentiments. Thank you.

 

[jlrhiner]

I will tell you something I am absolutely sure of. I watched the coverage of this tragedy as it happened. (I do this to piss myself off). I followed the changing stories from the news reports with the normal grain of salt. I watched the Capt. of the Conn. State Patrol give the first press briefing stating that a GLOCK and a Sig Sauer, both in 9mm, were used in the shooting. And he said, repeatedly, that an AR-15 style Bushmaster rifle was recovered unfired from the shooters car.

I went to bed that night believing that the attack was made with the two pistols. The next morning, it was the AR.

I didn't make this up. Nor did I embellish it. And I watched the coverage of the event for approx. 9 hours (hey! I'm retired). So tell me, did the State Patrol Capt. not know what was going on?

 

[Comrad]

Good to know there are others who feel the same sentiments. Thank you.

I hit the Like button on this, I wish there was a I Really Like button, I would have hit that too.

The continual lowering of standards and expectations is or has really negatively affected this country. I don't know if it's even possible to recover anymore.

 

[badguybuster]

One of the things I hate about these threads (and am happy no politics on this forum) is that it turns nasty and people get into pissing battles.

 

[The Big D]

I have posted this before; here is the link again.

Strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms (Quotation) « Thomas Jefferson

Be safe.

The quotations are generally attributed to both men. If you have evidence that proves otherwise, I suggest you provide it so we all can stand corrected. There are as many sources that validate the quotes that reject them, by the way.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

I will tell you something I am absolutely sure of. I watched the coverage of this tragedy as it happened. (I do this to piss myself off). I followed the changing stories from the news reports with the normal grain of salt. I watched the Capt. of the Conn. State Patrol give the first press briefing stating that a GLOCK and a Sig Sauer, both in 9mm, were used in the shooting. And he said, repeatedly, that an AR-15 style Bushmaster rifle was recovered unfired from the shooters car.

I went to bed that night believing that the attack was made with the two pistols. The next morning, it was the AR.

I didn't make this up. Nor did I embellish it. And I watched the coverage of the event for approx. 9 hours (hey! I'm retired). So tell me, did the State Patrol Capt. not know what was going on?

Agree with this-also from what I gather he was buzzed in. Who would buzz into a school someone carrying a bushmaster??? Whereas pistols could be easily hidden. Why has not the NRA run with this???

 

[Rule3]

Not to be crass, but it is certainly easy enough to determine what bullets actually killed those poor children. Where is the ME report??

 

[M3Stuart]

Picture that robot on 'Lost in Space'

***warning*** ***danger Will Robinson***

Watch out for the logic trap! Watch out for how the conspiracy theory is framed.

For example: (this is not a political statement, just a rehash of historical events) in the aftermath of 9/11 people offered all sorts of conspiracy theories. If you actually studied them, they all end with "you cannot prove that the (government or whoever) did NOT do (such and such)".

Here's the logic trap: the negative cannot be proved. It's not possible. You cannot prove that the (government or whoever) did NOT do something, you can only prove the affirmative of, well, anything.

5 minutes in the oven at 350 degrees WILL melt the cheese on my nachos; we can test that and prove the affirmative.

The sun WILL come up tomorrow; we can wait until tomorrow morning and see it.

People always want to say; "what about this...what about that...". That's idle speculation. An absence of evidence does NOT prove the NEGATIVE. It merely FAILS to prove the AFFIRMATIVE thus rendering the affirmative hypothesis null. It's basic logic. The method is integral to all science.

Some people want to sit around and postulate; "What if the world ends on December 21st 2012?" Ok, let's test that...didn't happen. Have we 'proved anything'? Yes, we proved the affirmative hypothesis: "Will civilization continue as we know it subsequent to December 21st 2012?" Answer = Affirmative.

The logic trap is trying to 'prove the negative'. Watch for it. Don't fall for it.

The OP alludes to a situation where additional 'facts' are introduced to a known story with all kinds of implications; "what if it's true? what if they did this or that?" Ok. Fine. Let them state the hypothesis clearly and try to prove it with facts. I haven't got the time or inclination to try to make anybody's case for them. And I won't give any credibility to unproven hypotheses.

 

[StatesRightist]

Picture that robot on 'Lost in Space'

***warning*** ***danger Will Robinson***

Watch out for the logic trap! Watch out for how the conspiracy theory is framed.

For example: (this is not a political statement, just a rehash of historical events) in the aftermath of 9/11 people offered all sorts of conspiracy theories. If you actually studied them, they all end with "you cannot prove that the (government or whoever) did NOT do (such and such)".

Here's the logic trap: the negative cannot be proved. It's not possible. You cannot prove that the (government or whoever) did NOT do something, you can only prove the affirmative of, well, anything.

5 minutes in the oven at 350 degrees WILL melt the cheese on my nachos; we can test that and prove the affirmative.

The sun WILL come up tomorrow; we can wait until tomorrow morning and see it.

People always want to say; "what about this...what about that...". That's idle speculation. An absence of evidence does NOT prove the NEGATIVE. It merely FAILS to prove the AFFIRMATIVE thus rendering the affirmative hypothesis null. It's basic logic. The method is integral to all science.

Some people want to sit around and postulate; "What if the world ends on December 21st 2012?" Ok, let's test that...didn't happen. Have we 'proved anything'? Yes, we proved the affirmative hypothesis: "Will civilization continue as we know it subsequent to December 21st 2012?" Answer = Affirmative.

The logic trap is trying to 'prove the negative'. Watch for it. Don't fall for it.

The OP alludes to a situation where additional 'facts' are introduced to a known story with all kinds of implications; "what if it's true? what if they did this or that?" Ok. Fine. Let them state the hypothesis clearly and try to prove it with facts. I haven't got the time or inclination to try to make anybody's case for them.

The OP posted initially and further down stated that the post was intended to promote people's taking a look at all of the various articles, writings, contradictions etc and deciding for themselves what made sense to them and the appropriate response. No one was or is trying to force anyone to any particular conclusion.

I'd suggest you try reading the "OP's" posts again or better yet, save your Pseudo Intellectual attempts at Psychology and Mind Reading for someone or something else. The funniest part of your post is the fact you miss the irony that you are trying to introduce motive/facts to my post in order to prove your hypothesis on my intentions. Now go think on that for a while............

 

[Rule3]

Been reading your Principles of Logic Book again??

Besides the Robot was always right.

 

[Biginge]

Boys,

I'm on the South side of seventy now days and have seen a lot of "stuff" in my few years. I read all of the post and watch the news as all of us do. I try and understand what they just told me without inflection.

I don't know much and everyday the Good Lord leaves me here I realize I am getting dumber. It would be hard to imagine anyone feeling worse about the rash of mass shootings we have experienced recently than I do. I cannot fathom the feelings of the familys involved.

I do know for a fact that one common thread exist in all of these shootings. These fools (shooters) were crazy as hell. No way to sugar coat it, put a spin on it, etc. They were flatout crazy. I am speaking of Laughner (Arizona, Gabby Giffords, et.al). The Batman movie guy, is Holmes his name? And finally Lanza. I believe they used different weapons, maybe some were the same. It makes no difference what they used, people are dead, families are destroyed, and they are/were crazy as Hell.

But, the fact remains, there were crazy. I really think that we should hammer this point to oblivion and not try to "second, third, and infinity guess about events, that is at best, by us, only conjecture. I am not real sure the "others" don't delight in this hodge podge.

Just my 3 cents (adjusted for inflation).