SCHOFIELD 2nd Model mfg1876 hammer safety help

[TomTownUSA]

My S&W Collectors letter states civilian model and made in 1876. It appears to have had little use, plumb color overall but traces of bluing on barrel hinge, hammer and trigger guard so I believe not used much which would suggest not worn parts. When initially obtained the cylinder locking spring that is located on the top front of the trigger guard was broken so it will not register. That is a problem finding a suitable spring but my concern is the HAMMER SAFETY SETTING appears not to be there. It fully cocks OK and the hand turns the cylinder but NO click to a safety position. Gun condition suggests little use so the hammer safety notch should be there along with the trigger catch tip. I could not see hammer position notches when plate removed but hammer has good bluing and no apparent ware. IS THERE SOME HAMMER SPRING ADJUSTMENT OR ANYTHING TO REGAIN SAFETY NOTCH POSITION ?? Your expert thoughts please, THANKS, Tom

 

[mmaher94087]

My X-ray eyes are a bit blurry. Can you post a photo of the internals after taking the side plate off? Preliminary guess, the half cock, AKA safety notch, is broken off the hammer. Cylinder stop spring found in front of the trigger can be fabricated.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


The hammer notches are visible when the side plate is removed.
This is how it looks.
(1) This is the hammer all the way down (i.e. Fired Position),
(2) This is the hammer at the first "click" or the safety/loading notch,
(3) This is the hammer all the way cocked.

So, removed the side plate and check that your notches are there.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[TomTownUSA]

SCHOFIELD 2nd Model mfg1876 hammer safety help reply

I will take the plate off and look.. and let you know.. thanks for the pic's, helped. thanks

 

[TomTownUSA]

SCHOFIELD 2nd Model mfg1876 hammer safety help reply#2

When cycling thru all looks like your 3 photos. From the fired position the trigger rests under the notch, when you let off the trigger it automatically engages the half cock notch.. it appears to be ALWAYS in half cock when not fully cocked. I did not understand that so I assume it is working correctly, PLEASE CONFIRM WORKING CORRECTLY or NOT..
Second problem, the broken cylinder lock spring. I own a perfect working new model 3 American made in 1881, DO YOU THINK IT'S CYLINDER LOCK SPRING COULD BE USED AS A GUIDE TO MAKE A NEW SPRING FOR MY SCHOFIELD???? Thanks, Tom

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

When cycling thru all looks like your 3 photos. From the fired position the trigger rests under the notch, when you let off the trigger it automatically engages the half cock notch.. it appears to be ALWAYS in half cock when not fully cocked. I did not understand that so I assume it is working correctly, PLEASE CONFIRM WORKING CORRECTLY or NOT..

I'm not sure what you are saying but if I understand you, there
is something not right. The hammer should not "automatically"
engage the safety/loading notch. The hammer will rest at the
"fired" position unless one pulls the hammer back to the safety/
loading notch.

Can you post some pics of your Schofield with the side plate off?
I am wondering if your trigger sear is broken off.

As to the cylinder stop spring being the same between the two,
I will have to check.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[TomTownUSA]

SCHOFIELD 2nd Model mfg1876 hammer safety help reply#3

Pic #1 is the normal always position, #2 is after depressing trigger and fired, I am continuing to hold the trigger depressed, NOT released from firing from full cock, #3 is full cocked position...

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


There is definitely something wrong with the trigger. The sear end
of the trigger is short and too broad to fit into the safety/loading
notch. It has either broken off the end or somebody modified it.
It was not uncommon for triggers to break like this. Metallurgy
at that time wasn't well understood and the composition of the
steel as received from mill was not always consistent. Sometimes
they determined the properties by trial and error.

There are a couple of ways to proceed. Replacing the trigger
would be best but it isn't likely you will find one. The other way
would be to have the trigger repaired. The two ways to repair
it are to weld up the nose of the trigger and re-shape it back to
its original dimensions. The other is to grind off the top of the
trigger and braze or silver solder a new piece of tool steel and
then re-shape it to the original dimensions. The pics I posted
show a trigger that was repaired by the latter method. If one
looks carefully, one can make out the line of the repair.

I don't know if the reproduction triggers are close enough to use
but it may be worth buying one to see. Otherwise, you will need
to find a smith that can do this kind of work.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[TomTownUSA]

It seems someone, probably a long time ago, messed badly with this guy. I am not sure about fixing it... certainly hurts its value in the present state.

Note, when I depress the trigger releasing it from the safety notch the hammer will NOT move any further forward.. The firing pin always protrudes out very slightly toward the cylinder too. very strange..

Too bad, I never thought I would ever find a Schofield I could afford and when lightning did strike, someone messed with it. Like the middle or lower plate screw, it appears to be broken off inside the hammer pivot pin, see the plate off pics.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


Here are a couple pics showing firing pin protrusion.

(1) Hammer all the way down (i.e. Fired position),
(2) Hammer at the first "click" (i.e. safety/loading notch).

Of course, full cock wouldn't look any different from the safety/
loading notch.

Take a look and see how much the firing pin protrudes and com-
pare it with yours. It should be about the same. The damaged
trigger shouldn't affect this.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[TomTownUSA]

In the safety notch the pin does protrude slightly, I will need to load an empty casing to see if the slight protrusion jams the cylinder when cocking.
Thanks for your help... for now I will just live with the problems and enjoy owning and holding my piece of American history.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

Second problem, the broken cylinder lock spring. I own a perfect working new model 3 American made in 1881, DO YOU THINK IT'S CYLINDER LOCK SPRING COULD BE USED AS A GUIDE TO MAKE A NEW SPRING FOR MY SCHOFIELD???? Thanks, Tom

Here are some pics of the cylinder stop springs. The top spring is
from my Schofield and the bottom is from my #3 American. It
look like the #3 American could be used with a little narrowing
of the leg. I think the spring from my Schofield is a smith made
spring and not the original.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[Exmilcop]

In the safety notch the pin does protrude slightly, I will need to load an empty casing to see if the slight protrusion jams the cylinder when cocking.
Thanks for your help... for now I will just live with the problems and enjoy owning and holding my piece of American history.

Have you looked at the Uberti replicas? Uberti sells parts as well so if you look at the schematics of Uberti's Schofields you may be able to order the correct parts from them and get your pistol put to rights.

 

[TomTownUSA]

Thanks for the photos... they help
I purchased a Uberti spring, filed a bit and it fit but appears to strong, would not allow hammer to depress for hand to work when cocking. I may of had it in up side down, will try again or maybe file thinner to reduce strength.

 

[mmaher94087]

Tom T, post #7 of your trigger at the safety notch shows how much of your trigger sear is missing. The rectangular safety notch of the hammer shows the shape and size the trigger sear should be. From your photo, I'll wager that your cylinder does not lock in battery at the instant the hammer reaches full cock, and one needs to pull past full cock.

 

[mmaher94087]

On the broken side plate screw, there appears to be a 'tab' sticking up. Is it possible to grab it with tweezers or a small pair of needle nose pliers and unscrew it? If so, before attempting it, I'd soak it for three days in penetrating oil and heat the hammer stud with a soldering iron before attempting to unscrew the broken stub of the screw.