self defense ammo for 9x18 makarov
- Thread starter firehawk
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Erich
Member
I don't know how one can realistically compare cartridges since each shooting has so many different variables, but here are some things I've seen in cases I've worked.
From what I've seen, 9x19 hollowpoints will penetrate enough to be effective, and I've seen that .380 hollowpoints often won't. From their ballistic similarities, I would assume - without having seen it - that 9x18 hollowpoints would behave like .380 hollowpoints.
I've never seen a failure to adequately penetrate with .380 or 9x18 ball. 9x19 ball is damned menace and is practically guaranteed to overpenetrate a human being and still be dangerous on the other side. I've worked on a case in which 9x19 ball penetrated its intended target (a human head) and badly injured a non-intended person. I've worked on one case where a .380 ball round penetrated a limb of its intended target and went on to injure a non-intended target. But I've worked on a slew of cases in which .380 and 9x18 ball hit their intended targets (generally human torsos, sometimes heads) and did not overpenetrate.
The only time I'd consider carrying 9x19 ball would be if I were hiking in the boonies and this was going to be my defensive gun against big critters (certainly not my first choice, but remember the grizzly that ranger killed a few years back by draining his Beretta 92 into it). I carry 9x19 pistols frequently, and they're always loaded with hollowpoints (which vary depending on the gun - I carry what my chrono, test targets and reliability functioning shows works best in a given gun). I occasionally carry a tiny LCP .380 and a PPK-sized Hungarian R61 9x18, and they're always loaded with the fastest ball rounds from that gun.
A person should, of course, test rounds from his gun and think about the conditions under which he will be carrying that gun before deciding what round is best for him. What works for me and my guns in my situations, very well might not be the best thing for another person and his guns in his situations.
From what I've seen, 9x19 hollowpoints will penetrate enough to be effective, and I've seen that .380 hollowpoints often won't. From their ballistic similarities, I would assume - without having seen it - that 9x18 hollowpoints would behave like .380 hollowpoints.
I've never seen a failure to adequately penetrate with .380 or 9x18 ball. 9x19 ball is damned menace and is practically guaranteed to overpenetrate a human being and still be dangerous on the other side. I've worked on a case in which 9x19 ball penetrated its intended target (a human head) and badly injured a non-intended person. I've worked on one case where a .380 ball round penetrated a limb of its intended target and went on to injure a non-intended target. But I've worked on a slew of cases in which .380 and 9x18 ball hit their intended targets (generally human torsos, sometimes heads) and did not overpenetrate.
The only time I'd consider carrying 9x19 ball would be if I were hiking in the boonies and this was going to be my defensive gun against big critters (certainly not my first choice, but remember the grizzly that ranger killed a few years back by draining his Beretta 92 into it). I carry 9x19 pistols frequently, and they're always loaded with hollowpoints (which vary depending on the gun - I carry what my chrono, test targets and reliability functioning shows works best in a given gun). I occasionally carry a tiny LCP .380 and a PPK-sized Hungarian R61 9x18, and they're always loaded with the fastest ball rounds from that gun.
A person should, of course, test rounds from his gun and think about the conditions under which he will be carrying that gun before deciding what round is best for him. What works for me and my guns in my situations, very well might not be the best thing for another person and his guns in his situations.
Maximumbob54
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JeffHolt
Member
We make a 9X18 MAKAROV 95gn XTP-HP loaded to 1000+ FPS.
This is faster than Hornady's own factory load, according to their own load book.
We decided to make this cartridge after receiving many requests for a SD cartridge at our Northern New England Gun shows.
There are still have a few boxes available and more can be had at: Appalachian Ammo - Home
Regards,
Jeff
This is faster than Hornady's own factory load, according to their own load book.
We decided to make this cartridge after receiving many requests for a SD cartridge at our Northern New England Gun shows.
There are still have a few boxes available and more can be had at: Appalachian Ammo - Home
Regards,
Jeff
Erich
Member
Really. From what gun? Spreads? Deviations? For handload purposes, Power Pistol will get you there in a Mak. Still not sure one wants to put hollowpoint "brakes" on something this light moving this slow.
ElectroMotive
Member
After proper product placement, I am of the belief that penetration to not only vital organs, but also the CNS is crucial. Penetration before expansion. In ballistically hamstrung cartridges like .380 and 9x18 I would always choose FMJs. If I could find it, an FMJ with a truncated cone would make happier.
JeffHolt
Member
Erich,
We used the loading data from Hodgdon Powders. I believe they used a 4 inch barrel.
We used the loading data from Hodgdon Powders. I believe they used a 4 inch barrel.
Stevie
Member
The first time I fired a Makarov 9x18....the bullets were having issues penetrating 1/4" plywood on the target frame!...Was literaly sticking bullets..and a few just bounced off!
That was back in the early 1990's with a brandnew Russian IJ70 and Chinese surplus ball ammo...the Chinese ammo was some sort of feeble!
That was back in the early 1990's with a brandnew Russian IJ70 and Chinese surplus ball ammo...the Chinese ammo was some sort of feeble!
Maximumbob54
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I'm still a do it your selfer. Ranch Dog Outdoors was kind enough to send me a 9mm Mak mold he is working on for testing. These are as cast:
They are tumble lubed up and dry to the touch this morning. They will be loaded up this afternoon and shot tomorrow morning. I like the flat nose. I will have a better write up on them and can share it here later once completed.
They are tumble lubed up and dry to the touch this morning. They will be loaded up this afternoon and shot tomorrow morning. I like the flat nose. I will have a better write up on them and can share it here later once completed.
Erich
Member
JeffHolt:
Erich:
JeffHolt:
Jeff, it sounds like you're telling us that you're an ammo company that doesn't test its own ammo, but just relies on data from a manual - can that be right?
Erich:
JeffHolt:
Jeff, it sounds like you're telling us that you're an ammo company that doesn't test its own ammo, but just relies on data from a manual - can that be right?
BigBill
Absent Comrade
When in doubt on which ammo brand to use for ccw carry I use winchester silver tips, my reloads or the sellier & bellot ammo. S&B loads there ammo to spec its not down loaded. Even there mauser calibers are hotter than the american made ammo.
I personally don't see/feel that much difference between the 380acp and the 9mm mak ammo. The 9mm luger seems to be a tad hotter but the 9mm largo is much more powerful.
The czech CZ82 in 9mm mak has been my new ccw gun for many years now. But when i carry any bigger caliber(44mag, 41mag 45acp) the 9mm mak becomes a backup.
I personally don't see/feel that much difference between the 380acp and the 9mm mak ammo. The 9mm luger seems to be a tad hotter but the 9mm largo is much more powerful.
The czech CZ82 in 9mm mak has been my new ccw gun for many years now. But when i carry any bigger caliber(44mag, 41mag 45acp) the 9mm mak becomes a backup.
Last edited:
JeffHolt
Member
Erich,
After doing numerous gun shows we had several requests for a SD hollow round fo the Makarov.
Hornady states they load their 95gn XTP to a velocity of 975 fps.
Easily achievable. The hodgdon data we used is from the Hodgdon powder website. It is a safe and reliable place to start. We do chrono loads using what guns we have on hand. Does this necessarily mean our data is more reliable? Not really.
Perhaps your subliminal objective is to attack our credibility. Fair enough. Our prime objective is to maintain safe pressures. Our insurance company has no issues with us using the published loads of Powder companies as guides. Some people apparently do. Oh well. There are plenty of published loads that can duplicate or exceed the commercial factory ammo readily bought.
Here's your chance to show us off as frauds. Buy some and shoot it.
BigBill,
The 9mm Mak is slightly more powerful than the 380 Auto.
Neither would be my first choice for CC-SD.
After doing numerous gun shows we had several requests for a SD hollow round fo the Makarov.
Hornady states they load their 95gn XTP to a velocity of 975 fps.
Easily achievable. The hodgdon data we used is from the Hodgdon powder website. It is a safe and reliable place to start. We do chrono loads using what guns we have on hand. Does this necessarily mean our data is more reliable? Not really.
Perhaps your subliminal objective is to attack our credibility. Fair enough. Our prime objective is to maintain safe pressures. Our insurance company has no issues with us using the published loads of Powder companies as guides. Some people apparently do. Oh well. There are plenty of published loads that can duplicate or exceed the commercial factory ammo readily bought.
Here's your chance to show us off as frauds. Buy some and shoot it.
BigBill,
The 9mm Mak is slightly more powerful than the 380 Auto.
Neither would be my first choice for CC-SD.
Erich
Member
JeffHolt wrote:
So . . . which guns were those that you used to chrono this load? I mean, I'm not asking a difficult question here. How long have you been loading anyway? (I'm pretty new compared to many here - I started in the mid-'80s. And I have records that could tell me exactly which gun I'd chrono'd any given load through back to the first chronograph I bought back in '89.)
You know, your evasiveness and frankly bizarre statements and "explanations" on this thread don't make me want to run out and buy your stuff.
So . . . which guns were those that you used to chrono this load? I mean, I'm not asking a difficult question here. How long have you been loading anyway? (I'm pretty new compared to many here - I started in the mid-'80s. And I have records that could tell me exactly which gun I'd chrono'd any given load through back to the first chronograph I bought back in '89.)
You know, your evasiveness and frankly bizarre statements and "explanations" on this thread don't make me want to run out and buy your stuff.
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