Quality Control

[AveragEd]

Also keep in mind that the craftsmen who made the finely fitted firearms of old are now retired and/or dead. I do not think there is a large pool of younger men and women who are looking to become craftsmen of firearms, but they can assemble MIM and CNC machined parts and send them down the line.

And it doesn't stop with gunsmithing. I am a retired director of service operations for a GM dealership. I learned the hard way many decades ago that the "technicians" of today are not mechanics. When building our shop from scratch I hired experienced technicians with GM factory training and got lucky with my first three - they were good men, dedicated to the quality of their work. But then my luck ran out and I hired men who could not come to work on Mondays and/or turned out unsatisfactory work. It became frustrating for me.

One day, the parts manager and I were scrapping warranty parts and I wondered if our local Vo-Tech school had any current parts for use in the classroom. I loaded up a bunch of parts and gave them to the instructors. They were over the moon happy to have them and rewarded me by calling me every April with the contact information for their two best students. I trained them in my work ethic and sent them to GM training centers. We grew to be one of the highest rated service departments in central Pennsylvania. GM actually sent their problem cars to try us to avoid Lemon Law buybacks.

A great story involves a young man who had recently graduated from Ohio Diesel Tech but was stocking shelves at a grocery store. It turned out he loved electronics and this being in the mid-1980s, that was more valuable than I could have imagined. When the Buick Riviera was downsized and loaded with electronic equipment like a touch screen to control the HVAC, entertainment and other systems, GM had an eight-day Specialized Electronic Training course for which every dealership had to have at least one technician certified before any new Rivieras would be shipped to it. AND a tech had to pass a pre-test before being accepted to that class. My former grocery store worker placed eighth in the country on that pre-test and passed the course with flying colors!

These days, I'm gladly removed from that industry but now that I am on the other side of the service counter, I bitch constantly about how customer service has deteriorated in this country. The persons with whom we speak are either impossible for olde phartes like me to understand or lack the training and product knowledge needed to be able to help me.

Ed

 

[Dave686]

I'm a S&W FanBoy. I've been buying Smith & Wesson's for over 45 years and will continue to do so; they have a great product. So, I don't stomp my feet, hold my breath and say I'll never buy another one; that would be a lie. But I can say I'll never waste my money on a "Performance Center" gun again. There is absolutely no chance of that happening. Unless of course S&W decides to put "Performance Center" on all their guns, which kinda looks like the way they may be headed.

However.. when I got a lemon; CS was useless. And I will take every opportunity to call them out.

I've bought well over 100 handguns and the only one I have ever had to put an aftermarket trigger in is a "Performance Center" gun. If it was even in the Performance Center; I don't believe it never got off the cart. I think marketing is playing fast & loose with the PC name; and I don't want to pay extra for something I'm not getting. I had to buy an Apex trigger for it.

Even after I wrote to the President and the Firearms Director, and was contacted by a CS person that told me he was told by the Firearms Director to fix my problem; he showed me who was in charge of CS, and it wasn't the Firearms Director.

I spent most of my life in manufacturing. I fully understand that anyone can have a bad product get out. But It's a shame what Customer Service has turned into across the board. Smith & Wesson was the gold standard in Customer Support in the firearms industry. If something was wrong; they made it right. That simply is not the case anymore. And that sad.

 

[JwesleyN]

The new CZ Python is far from "trouble free ". Mine had a trigger pull worthy of a Charter Arms.
Actually had visible hammer lift IN SINGLE ACTION!.
I guess we are better off buying old guns,in good condition.

I don't know if it's true but I have heard that California requires a cocked handgun to be dropped at 5' or something? I don't have any new S&Ws to compare to the new Python I recently bought. The SA trigger was terrible at 6# with the hammer rotating back as the trigger was pulled. There's what I can describe as a "speed bump" on the SA hammer notch. The trigger sear has to ride over the bump. I removed this bump and stoned the notch a little at a time putting everything back together for what seemed like 50 times but really maybe 6 or 7 checking the SA pull weight each time until I got just under 4# and left it there. Breaks clean now with no perceived creep. The DA pull was perfect the way it came.

 

[white cloud]

That's pretty bad QC. I must point out that I bought some S&Ws from the 1980s that were equally bad along with terrible Rugers and Colts. I have typed the following on here a dozen times: If you own a high quality good shooting gun, never sell it even if you don't shoot it much. Your tastes/needs in firearms will change and you will be kicking yourself for selling that fine firearm.

 

[Beju]

I don't know if it's true but I have heard that California requires a cocked handgun to be dropped at 5' or something? I don't have any new S&Ws to compare to the new Python I recently bought. The SA trigger was terrible at 6# with the hammer rotating back as the trigger was pulled. There's what I can describe as a "speed bump" on the SA hammer notch. The trigger sear has to ride over the bump. I removed this bump and stoned the notch a little at a time putting everything back together for what seemed like 50 times but really maybe 6 or 7 checking the SA pull weight each time until I got just under 4# and left it there. Breaks clean now with no perceived creep. The DA pull was perfect the way it came.

 

[Dave Haynes]

A good try now equals success...

 

[ImDrRich]

My God, how sick I am about posts such as these! Not to bash the OP, but he is correct.

I really want to like the Shield X but there is NO WAY I'm buying any more NEW S&W handguns until I read more positives than negatives - and I don't see that happening anytime soon. At this point I can only conclude that profits over quality is more important to S&W than ever, and that's a shame for this company as it certainly holds a place in American history.

 

[REParker]

I guess we are better off buying old guns,in good condition.

EGGS-Zackly!!

 

[bobsguns]

All the comments about "DEI hires" are just a cheap shot. Quality is the responsibility of management and I'm willing to bet that the management of S&W is overwhelmingly old white guys.

The "old curmudgeons" mentioned? They'd be fired because they couldn't do the work fast enough. Not because they're slow but because doing it right takes time. And time costs money.

No doubt there can be a shortage of people that are skilled but that doesn't justify the poor quality described in this thread. It should never go out the door.

I suspect the management of S&W would like the excuse of DEI hires but I don't think that's where the problem lies.

Let's explore my own personal experience when Beretta moved to TN.

I went to the job fair they held, excited about getting to work for Beretta, owning 5-6 of their 92 models.

During the speech by the 300lb HR sweathog (NOT an exaggeration!), she bragged about "diversity, inclusiveness" & the other buzzwords DEI likes to use. She even pointedly mentioned the large % of black females in the crowd of applicants, almost saying they were guaranteed a job.

On my application I mentioned the Berettas I owned, how well they were built, how well they shot, how much experience I had in shooting mine & how excited I was to hope to work there.

I never got a sniff. Got a form letter blowing me off.

After the TN got up & running, there was a flood of complaints & pics on-line in gun forums showing Beretta problems. Barrels not centered in the slide (way, way off), finish blems, excessive wear on contact points after only a few mags, etc. Draw your own conclusions there.

I have no clue who is working the S&W plant in TN, nor do I really care as I will NEVER buy one of their pistols. I do note the Smith Mass plant IS still making the revolvers, not TN. Draw your own conclusions there.

I've bought one NIB Smith revolver in the last couple of years, a 648 .22WMR. Love it. I've also bought three NIB Colt revolvers, one ea of a Python, King Cobra & King Cobra .22LR. No issues with any of the Colts at all. I believe Colt MAY have learned their lesson on sorry QC, but as I'm not there in the plant, I dunno.

Lastly, I don't disagree with the management being a major problem. I well recall the issues of American auto makers in the 1980s & 1990s. Toyota & Honda OWNED the US auto industry until they got their poop together.

My .o2

 

[bobsguns]

I've had poor results with Colt QA. And on top of that current pythons and anacondas have the California trigger, couple hundred bucks to get that corrected.

I've bought three Colt revolvers in the last 2 years. No issues with any of them.

No clue about your "CA trigger". Can you elaborate? I know they changed the Python trigger design with the new one, they HAD to in order to be competitive in the market.

 

[bobsguns]

A good try now equals success...

Thank the teacher's unions for that one, IMO. Everyone gets a medal, everyone is a winner................