Self/Home defense loading

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Actually, the proper statement to the cops should be something like "I'll be more than happy to fully cooperate with your investigation, and provide any information you may need after I've consulted with an attorney. I hope you understand".

After that point, SHUT UP!
 
358156hp said:
Actually, the proper statement to the cops should be something like "I'll be more than happy to fully cooperate with your investigation, and provide any information you may need after I've consulted with an attorney. I hope you understand".

After that point, SHUT UP!
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Words to that effect as best possible. Don't be surprised however if you have trouble remembering that. Talk as little as possible. Get the lawyer there are quickly as possible, to the scene while you are still there if possible especially if the cops don't have you in the back of the car.

Jim Keene
 
OK ,,,

So now you guys all have me worried ,,, if I find myself in a potentially deadly situation,,, do I grab my GUN or do I grab my LAWYER ??? :D
 
I'm not going to get in to the BS about carring handloads, I don't but persponally, but in a SHTF scenerio, you bet your behind I would. Anyway, Varget, max load from sierra's manual. Almost guarenteed to give sub MOA accuracy and put the smack down on your target of choice. I use Fed small rifle primers and lake city brass. Did I ever mentiong I LOVE Varget. Anyway, good luck.... :)

It appeared from your post you were asking what powder or grain to use. I didn't see that anywhere in the past 2 pages. Sorry if the answer I gave wasn't what you were looking for, that's just how I read it. And WORK UP to the max load as you normally would......
 
If you're in a real honest to God SHTF, what you have in your firearm isn't going to matter as long as it works like it is supposed to.
 
Isn't in the home defense......

I gather that in the home defense mode you can use about anything but the problem comes in when you carry out on the street and they can make it look like you were 'gunning' for the guy. If somebody breaks into your house and you shoot them with whatever, I don't think anybody will contest it. There are a few questionable/debatable cases. Like the guy that waited until a couple of teenagers got to his basement door and let them have it, then administering a coup de grace under the girls chin. Or the guy that shot a man in a car turning around in his driveway. He assumed they drove up for a home invasion.
 
RWS - Without starting the fuss here again (read my and the others prior posts) I don't think it makes as much difference where you are located as some folks would like to think. While the castle doctrine as exists in many states is a wonderful thing, it might not be absolute in all instances. For instance you don't get to put a finisher behind their left ear after they are down.

If it is clearly a good shoot, it is a good shoot. Under those circumstances I don't think handload v factory would make much and probably no difference.

The problems start when it isn't clearly a good shoot. You can have a good shoot that gets tainted by other people's motivations. Let's say you get jumped by a handful of gangbangers while you are out whose motive is to rob you. Unfortunately you're out by yourself. You end up having to kill one of them. Do you really think that the remaining bad boys are going to fess up their attempted robbery or are they going to claim that they just walking down the street heading for church where they were going to pray for LeRoy's sick granny and were minding their own business when that honky (you) pulled out his gun, hollered "I hate N!$$@rs" and started shooting at them for no reason? There are no other witnesses and you weren't lucky enough to be where there was a security camera. Your good shoot just turned to pooh.

If it isn't clearly a good shoot, then folks look at the evidence that supports your side of the story v whatever side someone else might be pushing. As I have indicated above, you can have a problem getting your ballistic evidence (if you have any) in front of the jury at time of trial if you are using a handload instead of a factory load. Maybe you'll need it, maybe you won't. If you do and can't get it before a jury, that would be unpleasant.

Some of the other posters apparently think that any shooting that they might be involved in will always be perfect, witnessed by fine upstanding reputable people who will always tell the truth and there will be a perfect security video of the occurrence with the theme song from the Magnificent Seven playing as background music and no question about what happened. While I hope that is true for both them and the rest of us, I live in the real world where the pictures are not always clear, the stories don't always match up and sometimes witnesses lie. Before I take a case to a jury, I'm looking for every piece of evidence that I can find to use on behalf of a client.

Jim Keene
 
Jim,

Perhaps, the Travan Martin shooting as a possible example?
 
CMD - The Martin shooting is a good example on one hand and a terrible one on the other.

Good example of bad things can happen to you - Shows what the press and public outcry can do to you. But for that however, Zimmerman would have probably never been indicted even with some of the questionable factors surrounding this shooting. I would caution all of our members to think about this. It is a perfect example of why a guy should immediately lawyer up if involved in a shooting.

Bad example - I haven't seen what the real facts are and frankly, I'm not believing anything that I see on TV or anywhere else about this shooting or Zimmerman's background. I can't tell from what I have heard so far whether Zimmerman is a good guy or a bad guy or somewhere in between. I hesitate to use Zimmerman as an example because of his purported bad history.
 
You don't believe what you see on TV? Shocking! I'll bet you are opposed to trial by press, too. For me, if its not on TMZ, it ain't true. :)
 
For everyone who wanted to argue that if it was a good shoot, what difference did the type ammo make? I point to the Zimmerman case. Zimmerman isn't an ammo case but it makes a serious point that everyone needs to think about. Zimmerman was originally found to be a good shoot. Police weren't going to push for charges, DA wasn't going to take him to the Grand Jury. Gee what happened? It was a good shoot. If anyone thinks that just being a good shoot is all that counts, remember Mr. Zimmerman and what happened to him.

I'm not saying don't carry or don't defend yourself. I carry everyday and advocate for self defense. Heck, I'm in favor of us arming school teachers and airline pilots. By the same token, folks need to realize that what happened to Zimmerman could have just as easily happened to any of us in a good, self-defense shooting.

By the way the forensics testimony in the Zimmerman case involved gunshot residue issues. Without the ability to have an exemplar and test the witness' theory if it had been challenged by an opposing expert, the testimony could have been excluded. I'm not sure that it would have made a huge difference but when you have a client whose life and or freedom is on the line you want every darn piece of favorable evidence you can muster.

Finally Zimmerman had a couple of fine hardworking lawyers at his table. From the small amount of the trial that I saw on TV, they did a heck of a job.

Jim
 
I think home defense and personal.....

I think home defense and personal (concealed carry-like in public) are two different animals. In SC if somebody is in your house I really doubt if the method used to defend your home and self would be called into question. Now OUTSIDE the house, I'm not so sure about.
 
My preferred SD ammo is Speer Gold Dots with Winchester Ranger-T as a secondary. Have you tried to find either recently? I've recently loaded up 100 Hornady 185 grain XTP's in 45 ACP up to a 950 fps muzzle velocity for a third alternate. While I don't expect that they'll perform as well as the Speer Gold Dots I am rather certain that they will do better than hardball.

As for the legal consequences, my hand loads are loaded below energy levels available in the factory loads so I can always claim that I was loading an ammunition that I believed would be Less than Lethal.
 
jwk said:
For everyone who wanted to argue that if it was a good shoot, what difference did the type ammo make? I point to the Zimmerman case. Zimmerman isn't an ammo case but it makes a serious point that everyone needs to think about. Zimmerman was originally found to be a good shoot. Police weren't going to push for charges, DA wasn't going to take him to the Grand Jury. Gee what happened?.........
Click to expand...

You're comparing apples and watermelons. The Zimmerman case was pushed to trial due to the racial and therefore political overtones. This is probably the "self-defense shooting trial" of the decade- I'm curious if the type of ammo used ever came up in court? If it was ever going to, this would have been the trial.
 
I have asked several LEOs and CC instructors the question of reloads and personal protection. They all answered the same... If the shooting is justified the ammo is not an issue. Another tip I was given is to buy a few boxes of Buffalo Bore or some other hot +P factory ammo and just have it at the house. Heaven forbid should someone ever get shot with one of my reloads a lawyer will have a hard time claiming the BG would have been less dead if I had used the factory ammo. You could also always claim you "forgot" your cheap lower recoil reloads in the gun because of the cost of factory ammo.
 
This thread (or at least some people) needs a time out.
 
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