Severe leading

C17

C17

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So since the ammo shortage I have been reloading my 625-8 45 ACP and 45 Autorim with 200 grain SWC hard cast lubed bullets. I am having severe leading issues in the cylinder and barrel. To clean it I had to use a dremel and a wire wheel to clean the cylinder and barrel. I tried lead remover with little success and had to use a dental pick to remove chunks that had built up around the forcing cone.
I clean the gun very well and only shot about 300 rounds yesterday. Any advice? Will Plated Berry's bullets lead? I really dont want to switch to FMJ since I already have 2,000 rounds loaded with cast.
 
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What speed are you shooting them. For best results with lead stay below 900 fps. Lead around the cone usually means too large diameter bullet & it's shaving off or could be a slight timing problem.. But lead all the way down could mean too small or not enough lube. Are these commercial or your own casts? I run the same bullet(my home cast & lube) thru my PT1911 with no lead problems.




BW
 
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You just said "hard cast" in that post. There isn't a thing about .45 ACP that needs a hard bullet. High pressure loads like .357 magnum need hard cast bullets with a harder lube. Your bullets need to be lead with a little tin to help fill out and a soft lube like 50/50 and sized to .452" or .453" assuming as posted already your cylinder throat isn't over spec. Then you may need to slug them to see how over size they need to be. If you are buying commercial cast then make sure they don't list antimony in the alloy are list them as "hard cast" bullets and if they only use a hard waxy lube then they may still lead anyways. It's hard to ship commercial cast with a softer lube so they like to use the harder wax lubes.
 
I forgot plated. If you crimp too hard and break through the plating they will likely lead the bore and have terrible accuracy. There shouldn't be a standard .45 ACP load you can load that will push the bullet too fast to strip the plating and lead the bore. You want to use load data for either higher lead bullet loads or lower jacketed bullet loads. Dont' start too low in lead as copper has more friction than the lubed lead and you may have a bullet stay in the bore and don't use anything but lower jacketed data as the plating is very thin and pressure needs to be low enough to not have the plating shear off in the rifling.
 
You can use Chore Boy (make sure it is all copper wire), you cut the wire and wrap it around a cotton mop and slide through your barrel. Or Lewis Lead remover kits for removing lead deposits.
 
arjay said:
I bet if you drop one of those bullets in the cylinder it falls right through.Give it a try.
Click to expand...

They are supposed to drop through the cylinder aren't they? The barrel no, but the cylinder.
 
BW64 said:
What speed are you shooting them. For best results with lead stay below 900 fps. Lead around the cone usually means too large diameter bullet & it's shaving off or could be a slight timing problem.. But lead all the way down could mean too small or not enough lube. Are these commercial or your own casts? I run the same bullet(my home cast & lube) thru my PT1911 with no lead problems.




BW
Click to expand...

They are chronoing at 840 fps. They are match grade bullets from midatlantic bullet. They are .452 in diameter. The leading the barrel only occurs in the first inch and a half from the forcing cone
 
I have that gun. I would check the size of the cylinder throats/barrel as arjay intimates above, along with the other suggestions regarding the load etc. If the timing is off, it could cause problems. Having to use extreme measures to get it clean, as you stated, tells us that there is something, probably a combination of things, WRONG. I shoot only lead bullets; mostly moderately hard cast, with great results. I suggest you start from scratch. Changing bullet type ain't gonna' fix whatever you have, in my view.

I shoot Mid Atlantic bullets. The folks there (Bob) have been helpful to me in the past in diagnosing problems. A top quality outfit in my experience.
 
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C17 said:
They are supposed to drop through the cylinder aren't they? The barrel no, but the cylinder.
Click to expand...

No. The throat is the gas seal before the bullet moves from the chamber to the bore. You need that sealed or the heated expanding gas will go around the bullet and you lose pressure and end up with a leaded forcing cone.
 
Maximumbob54 said:
You just said "hard cast" in that post. There isn't a thing about .45 ACP that needs a hard bullet. High pressure loads like .357 magnum need hard cast bullets with a harder lube. Your bullets need to be lead with a little tin to help fill out and a soft lube like 50/50 and sized to .452" or .453" assuming as posted already your cylinder throat isn't over spec. Then you may need to slug them to see how over size they need to be. If you are buying commercial cast then make sure they don't list antimony in the alloy are list them as "hard cast" bullets and if they only use a hard waxy lube then they may still lead anyways. It's hard to ship commercial cast with a softer lube so they like to use the harder wax lubes.
Click to expand...

Hard cast meaning bullets from Midatlanticbullets. They are match grade .452 diameter, 200 grain SWC. They say it is made with hard casting alloy 2-6-92 with a BHN of 17. I dont see anywhere on their site about what kind of lube they use.

The timing us perfect in the gun and shoots factory fmj's just fine. Btw I used copper remover and thoroughly cleaned the gun before switching to cast bullets.
 
I have a colt saa in 45 colt that sprays 452 bullets in a pattern and does lead some.It's quite accurate and doesn't lead with 454s
 
arjay said:
They should hang up just a bit in the front of the cylinder,if they don't you need a slightly bigger bullet.
Click to expand...

Ok, when I get home I will drop some unloaded bullets in there and see what happens. Thanks!
 
Maximumbob54 said:
No. The throat is the gas seal before the bullet moves from the chamber to the bore. You need that sealed or the heated expanding gas will go around the bullet and you lose pressure and end up with a leaded forcing cone.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. I see 45 acp is offered in .452 and .451. If .452 is too small to create that seal.. Then what? Do I need a new cylinder?
 
C17 said:
That makes sense. I see 45 acp is offered in .452 and .451. If .452 is too small to create that seal.. Then what? Do I need a new cylinder?
Click to expand...

that just means you need to get a mold, lead pot, and a bullet size die to let out till it works and make your own
 
C17-

I am going to bet you have slightly over sized cylinder throats. As stated above by other posters, ideally, you bullet should be a tight fit thru the chamber throats. This helps align the bullet with the forcing cone, and prevents gas blow by, which is a major cause of leading in the forcing cone / first couple inches of the barrel.

Hard cast bullets only contribute to the problem. A softer bullet, even though it may be slightly undersized to the throat, will usually "Bump Up" in size upon firing, resulting in a good seal. You are probably not getting this "Bump up" with a hard cast at the pressures and velocities you are loading at. I'd also bet, being commercially cast, that they have a bevel base, which can also contribute to leading.

In short, you probably have a bullet that would work well in a 1911 semi-auto, but not as well in a revolver.

As stated above, try seeing if one of your bullets drops freely thru the chamber and forcing cone. If it does, you most likely have found your answer. Lets say your throats are .452. Then your bullet should be about .001 to .002 larger, no smaller then .452. You can check your bullets with a dial caliper, and measure your throats by pushing a soft, over sized lead ball thru, and measuring it with the dial caliper, or by using a set of "pin gauges".

I don't own a 45 acp revolver, but have used the above info to make a variety of 44 spl, 44 mag, and 45lc revolvers shoot up to snuff.

Larry
 
Lewis Lead removal kit (Brownells) is the best way to remove heavy leading build up. Choreboy copper pad material wrapped around a brush will work for cylinders but the forcing cone is tough to clean without the matching cone shaped fitting and brass screen in the Lewis kit.

Some 25-2 revolvers in 45 colt had cylinders with .454 or larger throats. I am not aware of this being a problem in 45acp models. Many suppliers sell .454 lead bullets for pre-WWII colt SSAs which had .454 barrels. I have two 25-2s in 45 colt a .452 bullets has to be lightly pushed through the cylinder of one and drops through the other. The second one is very accurate with little leading using .454 cast bullets. I use .452 cast bullets in the other.
 
Revolvers typically require a softer lead than semiautos, and often larger diameter.
 
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