Severe leading

[venomballistics]

I just cut a wax plug to seal one end of the barrel and fill it with the vinegar peroxide solution ....
two minutes, pour it out and see what ya have.

I would recommend hiding the dremel from yourself in the future.
You might have to search for a while but copper chore boy pads have a fan club in these parts for this sort of work. They are quite aggressive on lead without the risk of damage.

 

[C17]

I just cut a wax plug to seal one end of the barrel and fill it with the vinegar peroxide solution ....
two minutes, pour it out and see what ya have.

I would recommend hiding the dremel from yourself in the future.
You might have to search for a while but copper chore boy pads have a fan club in these parts for this sort of work. They are quite aggressive on lead without the risk of damage.

No kidding on the dremel. It was time consuming but didnt damage the gun.

I would rather find a better way like you suggested. I am going to get the chore boy copper scrubs and will try the vinegar/ hp solution.

Also got a pin gauge today and will post detailed specs of loaded bullets, unloaded bullets, cylinder bores ( all 6) and forcing cone specs. If its too out of whack it may go to S&W to get reamed to the correct size

 

[C17]

Ok everyone. Here are the numbers. I used a pin gauge on the cylinder throats.

The first number is the case throat area, the second number is the bullet throat area. Each chamber has been numbered 1-6

1: .475/.452
2: .475/.452
3: .475/.451
4 .475/.452
5 .475/.451
6: .475/.452

Seems to be okay, now for the part that hurts my head. All the physics in the world tell me that my match grade .452 200 grain SWC bullets should fit right in there no problem. Well they don't. I basically took 6 brand new bullets, measured them all around at .452 and then basically slugged the cylinder throats. I then measured the bullets after they passed through. The results are strange. I used a wooden dowel and had to hammer, yes hammer, them through. Here are the bullet sizes after.

1: .450
2: .449
3: .449
4: .452
5: .450
6: .449

Now I ask...What the hell?

None were out of round, but the "step up" from the cylinder to the throat, or the "ledge" as some may call it is 0.023, and it is that "ledge" that is shaving the sides of my bullets off and making a hell of a mess.

I wonder if the FMJ factory ammo I was previously shooting was being over pressured from the tight fit in the cylinder throat.

I then pulled 5 loaded bullets. I measured the bullets at .452 with no distortion.

I measured the bullet casing of loaded rounds 1/4 inch below the crimp at .468 and 1/4 inch above the web at .467.

I figured I would do the same to some Home Defense PDX1 ammo. The base of that bullet AT THE CRIMP was .445, and the casing was .473.

I honestly think my cylinder chambers may be out of round or something. It is really not making much sense now.

I read that you should only need "2 finger pressure" to be able to push a bullet all the way through the cylinder...I had to use a hammer.

Don't worry, I have a padded vice and no firearms were harmed in the making of this data.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

1: .450
2: .449
3: .449
4: .452
5: .450
6: .449

Now I ask...What the hell?

See post #25 sounds about right in my experience for a -8, needs chamber and throat finishing with a reamer. But I have to ask about the pin gauges, they should be a no go.

 

[scooter123]

IMO your revolver need to go back to the factory. I suspect that your cylinder is missing the small chamfer at the edge of the headspace ledge and that sharp corner is what is causing your problems. My 610 had this problem and it was bad enough that it would strip the jacketing from an FMJ bullet.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I read that you should only need "2 finger pressure" to be able to push a bullet all the way through the cylinder...I had to use a hammer.

Where did you read that??? That would be big news to me. I don't know that you can really say what amount of pressure it should take as it will always be easier to push a lead bullet through than a jacketed bullet. That is part of why jacketed loads always list a higher pressure.

Also, keep in mind that lead has a certain amount of "spring back" to it. It can depend on the alloy, if they were air cooled or water quenched, the temp they were cast at, and several other things. I used to wonder why some guys would size a lead bullet down with a sizing die rated for the same as the bore (.357 bore and .357 die instead of .358 or .359) and finally found out that some guys expect the spring back after sizing due to their casting operation.

You are looking at commercial cast bullets. It's not unusual at all for them to have a variety of differences in them. That's a large part of why so many guys cast thier own to achieve the highest accuracy they can from their guns. If you cast your own you can know exactly the alloy, hardness, casting temp, and so on to eliminate variables instead of just crossing your fingers.

 

[Bart45]

Hardcast bullets are not needed in a revolver at moderate speeds. They do benefit the manufacturer as they do not need as much protection for shipping as the soft cast. I cast my own for 45Colt, 38Special, and 357 as close to pure lead as I can(do need a small amount of tin) and have zero leading. When I bought hardcast bullets from many casters, they all leaded.

 

[C17]

After some back and forth emails, S&W agreed to let me send in the gun for them to "look at".

Not before they told me that they wouldnt help me because I was shooting reloads. One guy told me to shoot smaller bullets! I told him that I want to shoot the size bullets that the gun was made for!

So now its a waiting game

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

Unfortunately they will probably send it back saying it is "within spec" as all the -8s probably have never seen a finishing reamer in their life. I swear they are all blind drilled and sent out the door, and this is not something new.

 

[C17]

Unfortunately they will probably send it back saying it is "within spec" as all the -8s probably have never seen a finishing reamer in their life. I swear they are all blind drilled and sent out the door, and this is not something new.

I hope that isn't the case. At least it appears to be a known issue. Worst case scenario I will buy a new cylinder from numrich gun parts and have it fitted.

 

[BlueOvalBandit]

I hope they fix it for you, cause this SHOULDN'T BE HAPPENING. I can understand the odd QC problem, it happens, but this seems to be more deliberate corner cutting or their tools are REALLY worn out.

 

[GP100man]

Seems you`ve done enuff of measuring to confuse yaself & us !

But what are ya measuring with ?? calipers won`t cut it , a good micrometer is a must !

I had a model 57 giving me fits until I fire lapped it !

I use jags & patches on revolvers & can feel ruff cyl throats & barrels, the last few GPs I polished the barrel with patches & FLITZ .

 

[jepp2]

Worst case scenario I will buy a new cylinder from numrich gun parts and have it fitted.

Another option would be to get a throating reamer from Dave Manson's link. Then your throats will be the correct diameter. Then the throats will be round and the correct diameter.

Have you tried slugging the barrel and seeing if that slug will pass through the cylinder throats with finger pressure? That is really the key.

 

[nachogrande]

leading bbl

not to diagnose or fix but just to clean. a wire wheel is too harsh imo and as stated may have made things worse. RU sure it's lead and not copper? first a standard cleaning with a decent solvent, lead, copper, or both. then some non chlorinated brake cleaner will strip any oils/solvents (avoid plastic )then some kind of polish/paste and a toothbrush or nylon bristle brush and elbow grease should do it. I use turtle wax chrome and rust polish& remover (it's cheap and readily available) dental picks come in handy for around the forcing cone but be careful of scratching anything. always start slow and gentle first, then get more aggressive if it's needed, it may not be.

 

[Fishslayer]

That makes sense. I see 45 acp is offered in .452 and .451. If .452 is too small to create that seal.. Then what? Do I need a new cylinder?

that just means you need to get a mold, lead pot, and a bullet size die to let out till it works and make your own

There are also manufacturers that offer lead bullets in .453 & .454. Missouri Bullets also offers different BHN and has a good tutorial on their website describing what's good for what & why.

I've had really good luck with a Bear Creek .452 moly coated 200gr RNHB. I'm guessing the hollow base helps sealing. It's very accurate & doesn't lead at all. Might try them in my '52 Model of 1950. Regular .452 LSWC leave gobs & streaks of lead everywhere. I gave up & just run plated in it.

 

[C17]

There are also manufacturers that offer lead bullets in .453 & .454. Missouri Bullets also offers different BHN and has a good tutorial on their website describing what's good for what & why.

I've had really good luck with a Bear Creek .452 moly coated 200gr RNHB. I'm guessing the hollow base helps sealing. It's very accurate & doesn't lead at all. Might try them in my '52 Model of 1950. Regular .452 LSWC leave gobs & streaks of lead everywhere. I gave up & just run plated in it.

The problem is the bullets are already too big.

 

[scooter123]

Do NOT make the mistake of assuming that oversized bullets cause leading. Many time bullets that are undersized create more leading issues than oversize bullets. The cause in the case of undersized bullets is Gas Leakage between the barrel and bullet causing localized melting of the surface of the bullet and accompanying deposits of lead.

 

[nachogrande]

GUESSING THE CAUSE AND CURE WITHOUT THE GUN

the gun has to be physically in the hands of someone knowledgeable enough about that particular make & mdl to make a correct diagnosis. to ask a bunch of guys on the net without, or even with pics, is just pissin into the wind. some MAY have a correct answer, most will not.

 

[C17]

the gun has to be physically in the hands of someone knowledgeable enough about that particular make & mdl to make a correct diagnosis. to ask a bunch of guys on the net without, or even with pics, is just pissin into the wind. some MAY have a correct answer, most will not.

Exactly, which is why I submitted a warranty shipping request to S&W to look at it. Still waiting to get the label, although in email traffic they told me to request one and that they would check it out

 

[Nevada Ed]

If they ask you to send in the "Whole Gun" make sure you don't...............

Send the original box, any non-stock items that you want to keep and after market grips. These items will be kept and "Stock" items added.

Good luck.