worm5932
Member
did you start a thread on this? if it is cycling and staying out of battery this could point a direction to a problem.
Shield 40 Mishap
- Thread starter 2001gmc
- Start date
did you start a thread on this? if it is cycling and staying out of battery this could point a direction to a problem.
OP
2001gmc
Member
Talked with David Valenze from Smith CS today. He still cant tell me when my shield will be shipped out. He said there was a big backlog and was unpredictable. I asked again if I could get a FS9 or 9C and he told me they were the same also and they were making more of the shields that I would probably get the shield faster. Just a update.
He also said when he knew something set in stone he would call me and let me know.
He also said when he knew something set in stone he would call me and let me know.
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K32s are still being serviced by Krieghoff USA, last I heard, and they were and always will be good guns, but the price quoted seems unreasonable - unless it is a San Remo grade, or something like that. An ordinary K32 in decent shape should be less than half that. I used to shoot skeet with a fellow who used a K32 and I doubt he would have traded it for a Beretta autoloader or something similar. Sorry for contributing to the thread drift.
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That's ok, thread drift is ok for us old guys...
helps to keep the thread fresh while waiting for an update....
I looked in the back of one of my gun vaults, the one I put a few of my Dad's old guns in I was interested in........ I found a minty LN Beretta 301, 28" semi auto, beautiful gun.. that will work just fine for now... My Dad passed away in 2000 left me with about 100 guns... many of the old military guns I sold, I was smart enough to keep the S&W 1917, 19, 629, 39-2, etc.... M1 carbines, SKS, Garands, Thompson 1927a1, and a bunch of others...... I totally forgot about the Beretta... almost gave it away 4 years ago...
helps to keep the thread fresh while waiting for an update....
I looked in the back of one of my gun vaults, the one I put a few of my Dad's old guns in I was interested in........ I found a minty LN Beretta 301, 28" semi auto, beautiful gun.. that will work just fine for now... My Dad passed away in 2000 left me with about 100 guns... many of the old military guns I sold, I was smart enough to keep the S&W 1917, 19, 629, 39-2, etc.... M1 carbines, SKS, Garands, Thompson 1927a1, and a bunch of others...... I totally forgot about the Beretta... almost gave it away 4 years ago...
ginzo
Member
Talked to them last week while waiting on frame plugs, asked about 638. Was told that demand is so great for the AR and M&P's that the focus was on them but ALL models were being produced.
You deserve yours 1st, then get me my 638!!!
Funny, it crossed my mind today about had you gotten it yet.
You deserve yours 1st, then get me my 638!!!
Funny, it crossed my mind today about had you gotten it yet.
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cxm
Member
WOW!!!!! A WHOLE box of ammo????? 
I had two kBs!! with Federal .40/180 in a Browning HP back around 1994. Fortunately, the BHP is steel and quite strong and no damage was done at all by the first kB!! other than the case head separating from the case body with the body sticking in the chamber... like yours I expect. Happily I was undamaged.
The second kB!! was also Federal .40/180. Like the first it was a FC head stamp... The second time the case head also separated and that time it blew the extractor off the BHP... happily no other damage was done to the gun or me.
After that event I sold off the BHP40 and decided no .40s for me after that. About 12 years later after the problem with .40SAW rounds going kB!! all over the place apparently being solved, I once more got a few .40s... but not many... the worrisome thing to me is I currently carry a Shield 40... which is becoming worrisome...
As I recall the kB!! problem in the 1990s was generally found to occur with the 180gr bullet and unsupported chambers. Apparently a lot of those problems were with Federal ammo, which Federal reportedly improved by making the cases stronger. Glock was the gun involved in a great number of the kBs!! as well... and they apparently changed the design of the chamber in their .40s to better support the case.
These sort of things seemed to cause the kB!! problem to go away ... but now I wonder if the problem has gone away... hopefully this is an isolated instance... BUT... time will tell I think.
I'm starting to think I should remove my Shield40 from carry use until this is cleared up... and take out the Federal ammo I'm carrying...
V/r
Chuck
V/r
Chuck
I had two kBs!! with Federal .40/180 in a Browning HP back around 1994. Fortunately, the BHP is steel and quite strong and no damage was done at all by the first kB!! other than the case head separating from the case body with the body sticking in the chamber... like yours I expect. Happily I was undamaged.
The second kB!! was also Federal .40/180. Like the first it was a FC head stamp... The second time the case head also separated and that time it blew the extractor off the BHP... happily no other damage was done to the gun or me.
After that event I sold off the BHP40 and decided no .40s for me after that. About 12 years later after the problem with .40SAW rounds going kB!! all over the place apparently being solved, I once more got a few .40s... but not many... the worrisome thing to me is I currently carry a Shield 40... which is becoming worrisome...
As I recall the kB!! problem in the 1990s was generally found to occur with the 180gr bullet and unsupported chambers. Apparently a lot of those problems were with Federal ammo, which Federal reportedly improved by making the cases stronger. Glock was the gun involved in a great number of the kBs!! as well... and they apparently changed the design of the chamber in their .40s to better support the case.
These sort of things seemed to cause the kB!! problem to go away ... but now I wonder if the problem has gone away... hopefully this is an isolated instance... BUT... time will tell I think.
I'm starting to think I should remove my Shield40 from carry use until this is cleared up... and take out the Federal ammo I'm carrying...
V/r
Chuck
V/r
Chuck
Since I keep hearing that 180gr ammo seems to be the common denominator in KB's... why the heck would anyone use it..... keep your gun on your side and use ammo you have confidence in...
Rastoff
US Veteran
People use it because 99% of the shooting world doesn't come to forums like this. Therefore, they never hear about these problems. Further, if they do hear about them, they don't make the connection between the bullet weight and the round. Just to take it one more step, they hear this, "I've fired 500 rounds of 180gr rounds through my wonder gun and never had an issue." Thus, the continue to use this ammo.
Understanding the .40
This has been posted on other forums, but helps provide an understanding regarding issues people have been having with the .40. I found this after I had an issue with a Gen2 Glock 23.
CALIBERS -- Why the 180gr Bullet is a Bad Choice for .40 S&W
It comes down to how deep the bullet is seated in relationship to the load. There are several other items you can find via google. One I would recommend is to google "docgkr ballistics", which goes beyond just .40 S&W. It seems to be one that many use for reference.
This has been posted on other forums, but helps provide an understanding regarding issues people have been having with the .40. I found this after I had an issue with a Gen2 Glock 23.
CALIBERS -- Why the 180gr Bullet is a Bad Choice for .40 S&W
It comes down to how deep the bullet is seated in relationship to the load. There are several other items you can find via google. One I would recommend is to google "docgkr ballistics", which goes beyond just .40 S&W. It seems to be one that many use for reference.
renatboost
Member
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2014
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Rick-O,thanks
CALIBERS -- Why the 180gr Bullet is a Bad Choice for .40 S&W
Good read, interesting, thanks!
CALIBERS -- Why the 180gr Bullet is a Bad Choice for .40 S&W
Good read, interesting, thanks!
Unsupported chambers
It should be also noted that .40 S&W is not the only round that has this issue. I have also found quite a few references to 9mm, 357 sig and even .45 ACP. When you have high pressures and an unsupported chamber you can have this issue. It seems to be seen most often in early Glocks, perhaps due to the numbers sold and the unsupported chambers of the earlier guns. A quick google of "unsupported chamber 9mm" will give quite a few links and images.
As an FYI, I have no issues with shooting either 9mm or .40, but after my G23 experience, I do want to know the details of the chamber support and load before pulling the trigger.
My Shield .40 has much better support than my G23. I also have a LWD 9mm conversion for the G23 that has good support.
It should be also noted that .40 S&W is not the only round that has this issue. I have also found quite a few references to 9mm, 357 sig and even .45 ACP. When you have high pressures and an unsupported chamber you can have this issue. It seems to be seen most often in early Glocks, perhaps due to the numbers sold and the unsupported chambers of the earlier guns. A quick google of "unsupported chamber 9mm" will give quite a few links and images.
As an FYI, I have no issues with shooting either 9mm or .40, but after my G23 experience, I do want to know the details of the chamber support and load before pulling the trigger.
My Shield .40 has much better support than my G23. I also have a LWD 9mm conversion for the G23 that has good support.
OP
2001gmc
Member
Still nothing. Just a update. I'm sure some of you are wondering.
Thanks for the update. Hope you get it soon.
Rastoff
US Veteran
Well, I didn't expect anything speedy. Thanks for the update.
I'm still looking in my local dealers to see if any 9's are in the showcases... nope... nothing, lots of 40's... no 9's... bet you could get a 40 pretty quick..
Maximumbob54
Member
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2010
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- 7,202
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- 1,928
That article is just NEVER going to die. It doesn't matter what bullet weight you use, they just adjust the powder volume to still be at the same working pressure. Bullet setback is bullet setback is bullet setback. You get bullet setback with any bullet weight and bad things are going to happen. Also, notice the date on that article? Yep, 180's are still common. There is just too much bashing without knowing what is even happening.
OP
2001gmc
Member
There is a 9 and a 40 in almost ever gun store here every time I go I look.
I'm in no big hurry but geeez they told me one should be shipped out by the end of Feb and here it is almost middle of April.
I'm in no big hurry but geeez they told me one should be shipped out by the end of Feb and here it is almost middle of April.
OP
2001gmc
Member
Well I called them yesterday and left a message maybe they will call me back today. Its frustrating to know that one of the kabooms that happened after mine they already got the 9mm shield in there hand. They had the 40 and did the cheaper buy like I did and chose the 9mm also instead of the 40 and they got there before me. I'm about fed up.
Hang in there Boss!! We got plenty of guns to shoot while we wait...
Ginzo... call me, can't find your number..
RobsTV
Member
Might be good fiction, but that's about it.
Bullet makers do not seat a bullet deeper, (to the point where pressures increases dangerously), without changing to a powder that easily allows deeper seating bullet, without any additional pressure increases. In fact, the safest methods are to "choose a powder" that gives as little free space as possible, which prevents bullet from seating properly if you accidently fill with too much powder. Nearly mistake proof. Less free space does not equal dangerous pressures if the proper powder is selected based on this free space.
Here is what real data looks like:
175gr bullet in 40 S&W brass.
w231 powder, 973fps, 32294psi, 76% case volume filled (including projectile).
WSF powder, 975fps, 29204psi, 80% case volume filled (including projectile).
This shows that the same bullet in the same brass casing can have vastly different pressure simply by changing the powder. The WSF example shows that a simple powder change allows you to have the same velocity, more case volume used (preventing accidental overfilling case) and "LESS" case pressure!
As a side note to the powders shown, the WSF has less felt recoil and is more pleasant shooting, with more knockdown power due to increased FPS. You can actually load faster than the example, which is only shown to compare equal PSI and volume.
Now with all that said, I do not use 175/180gr, but instead a hollow point version of the 175gr bullets, which weighs 155gr, and load them up to around 1044fps (roughly 29,000 psi). Even that can be a handful shooting in the Shield. If I did not have the HP's, I would use the 175/180gr bullets.
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