Shield .45 vs Kimber Ultra CDP II?

[Rastoff]

I would say though that a striker fired pistol is not really cocked and locked in the same sense that at 1911 is. While it is ready to fire by simply pulling the trigger, that trigger pull require significantly more effort than a 1911. There's also the safety build into the trigger of these guns so its much less likely that some other unintentional contact with the trigger will cause a discharge.

You might say that, but the 1911 actually has more safety built into it.

That little thing built into the trigger is a drop safety, nothing more. It's only function is to prevent discharge in the event the gun is dropped on the rear of the slide. Anything that comes in contact with the trigger, and holds it back, will disable the "trigger safety" and fire the gun. Many, many examples of this with people reholstering and clothing getting inside the trigger guard and firing the gun.

• The 1911 has a grip safety that must be depressed.
• The 1911 trigger must be held back or the hammer will be stopped by the half cock.
• If the 1911 hammer falls unintentionally, the half cock will prevent it striking the firing pin.
• The 1911 thumb safety blocks hammer movement, sear movement and trigger movement.
• If it is a series 80 1911, it also has a firing pin block that works just like the striker block in a striker fired gun.

• The M&P striker block prevents the striker from going forward if the trigger is not held back or the gun is dropped on the muzzle.
• The M&P trigger safety only prevents trigger movement if the gun is dropped on the rear of the slide. It serves no other function.
• If the M&P is outfitted with a thumb safety, that only blocks trigger movement.

There is no way to chamber a round in an M&P (or Glock) and not have the gun cocked. With a 1911, the hammer could be lowered, but I don't recommend it.

So, by the above list of safeties, the 1911 is far safer. It is a moot point though. Both guns are safe and won't fire unless done intentionally. Both guns are carried cocked and locked. Both guns are super reliable. Both are just as effective against a bad guy.

Buy and carry the one you shoot best. Get quality training. Practice what you're taught; a lot.

 

[kthom]

I wouldn't say the 1911 is a safer gun. I would say that it requires more things to be done in order to fire it if all the safeties are used. For me, that's more things to get screwed up! And it's also more things that can go wrong. I own the 1911 platform, and it's like any other platform, if it's well maintained, well constructed, and well handled, it's as good to go as any other. But the 1911 requires training specific to the platform and careful attention to the drill. The fact that it has performed well for so many years is a testament to the fact that it has stood the test of time. I personally think the 1911 is perhaps more subject to Bubba making "improvements" to the basic platform without fully understanding that all those safeties MUST be in harmony with specifications and with each other and the rest of the mechanism to be reliable.

I like to keep things as simple as possible, with the smallest number of things that must be done to put any weapon platform into quick use. Since the striker fired guns are in fact as safe as any other platform for a knowledgeable user who practices safe gun handling religiously, they are, for me, my EDC of choice if I am not carrying my old favorite revolvers. And since my striker fired semi autos carry a few more rounds with the added benefit of being able to reload them a bit more quickly and more easily carry spare ammo, I find myself carrying one of them most of the time. Like my revolvers, the large and small ones of the same platform operate the same, so there is less to "remember" and do if I switch between them and my revolvers. Once loaded and holstered, both of these two platforms are put into action in the same fashion, draw, aim, and shoot! That is important to me!

What Rastoff said is GOSPEL!!!! "Buy and carry the one you shoot best. Get quality training. Practice what you're taught; a lot." You will travel a very long way and wait for a very long time before you get better advice than that!!!!

 

[berudd]

Rastoff, thanks for those insights. That is a lot of great info that I had never considered before, and some I simply didn't know. I doubt I'll ever carry a 1911 anyway but still, the info you gave is very useful.

 

[ditrina]

Owner of 3 ultras.. 1 Ultra CDP II, Ultra Raptor II and the new Ultra RCP II / LG.. Do I love 'em you bet


Ultra RCP II / LG

Ultra Raptor II

Ultra CDP II (sent back to kimber to be fully KimPro finished

 

[kannonvaggon]

I carried a gov't model 1911 " back in the day " .... and had a couple times where when I went to fire the weapon I had a problem with the lemon squeezer safety. I wasn't the only one. On those models ya had to be careful how your hand went on the grip or it just might not function.

We didn't like this, and went to taping down the squeezer safety, but still always carried with loaded and cocked. I'm surprised I never shot myself or anybody near me, but this seemed perfectly "normal" at the time.

Today, I carry a Shield with a thumb safety and feel very secure it will function reliably and safely. YMMV

 

[Backlighting]

If you don't have any objection to revolvers a Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Spl
may be worth considering.

 

[Lee's Landing Billy]

Our opinions are ,or should be, based on our own experiences. That being said I see every common platform available here on this range. They are being fired with everything you can buy over the counter and personal reloads. The 1911 platforms I see are not as reliable as the Shields. When the 1911 system is shortened below Commander length the failure rate multiplies at a great rate. Not so with the plastic guns. We all have to seek our own salvation [not original to me], but my life's experiences with 1,000s of guns being shot with 10s of 1,000s rounds of ammo make me lean to the new guns for reliability. I own and cherish over a dozen Colt 1911s. I treasure each of them, but I do not carry any of them.

 

[Bad_Andy]

Thank you all for the replies. I agree that I would have to do a lot of training to learn a new (to me) platform with the 1911. I would certainly do this before I ever trusted my life by carrying a system that I am not 100% confident and/or comfortable with.

Right now I will stick with my 9mm shield. I am in no hurry to upgrade to a larger caliber (I do have a full size .40, that I could carry should I desire too).

My short term plan is to maybe purchase a regular full size 1911 (Colt, SA, or Kimber) for a range gun and get comfortable with the platform. I know they are great guns (and who wouldn't want to own a Colt or SA)?. If I like it (why wouldn't I)? then maybe I will consider a compact 3" 1911.

Thank you all for your thoughts and opinions.

 

[tom turner]

Hi, I have both, and love both . . . though the Kimber Ultra CDP is at another magnitude of "finer" as a handgun.

I really enjoy my Shield 9, but the trigger still leaves a lot to be desired vs. that sweet, light single action pull of the Kimber.

Here are some targets fired from my Shield right after I bought it, and will various loads. ZERO MALFUNCTIONS, but the trigger made accuracy a challenge. And yes, I keep it loaded, cocked and locked in a holster. It is totally safe, including on the table getting its photo taken.

Just before last light I pulled out the Kimber, just to sell what it would do. I wish I hadn't done that. All five rounds, shot in one ragged hole at 10 meters, standing . . . as boringly usual, and that perfect, crisp trigger? Wow.

That all being said, I'm going to be looking for a companion Shield 45 soon. I surely would hate to lose that Kimber from the car on a trip or a LEO confiscation (temporarily of course).

Mine was purchased around early 2000, and is thus the original (non-Series II) version, and back when they REALLY did a serious "meltdown" on them. Sixteen years ago, it was $1,000 new. Like the Shield, my Kimber has never had a single malfunction in it's 16 years, except for lightly hand-loaded 200gr. LSWC, and only because the recoil was too light to work with that double recoil spring.

I absolutely trust my life to that awesome baby 1911 with any full-power self-defense round, but carry it with 230gn jacketed hollowpoints. Mine loves this weight and shoots 'em to point of aim. However, it has always shot slightly to the left since I got it. I've never felt I needed to drift the sight over that tiny amount, though I probably should go ahead and do it.

I absolutely agree with other experienced 1911-design shooters, the 1911 is a safer gun to carry cocked and locked vs. the striker-fired weapons to experienced 1911 owners.

BUT . . . the Shield has a lot of great attributes going to it these days.

 

[Bonephish]

Hi, I have both, and love both . . . though the Kimber Ultra CDP is at another magnitude of "finer" as a handgun.

I have both a .45 Shield and a .45 Kimber Pro Carry II (4".) The Kimber is the most accurate handgun I own, but the Shield will get the job done inside 20' and is a lot more comfortable to carry concealed.

 

[gen3guy]

Who wouldn't want a Kimber? But you can probably get 2 Shields for the same price.

 

[Bonephish]

Who wouldn't want a Kimber? But you can probably get 2 Shields for the same price.

Or maybe 3 Shields.

 

[Bonephish]

But Shields are not this handsome, or as accurate.

 

[Rastoff]

Who wouldn't want a Kimber?

Go say that on the 1911 forum.

 

[dudester]

I have a Shield 9 and a Kimber Ultra Carry II. I love them both for what they are and carry them every day. I definitely shoot the Kimber better though.

 

[kthom]

Guys, we ain't really talking about target match accuracy here, are we? Yes there are guns that will measure group accuracy that is slightly better than the striker fired Shield models. But the purpose for the Shield models is personal protection accuracy. The operating platform of these guns is totally different when you compare them. The 1911 is, in my mind and experience, not the easiest and best choice for a relatively inexperienced shooter. Yes, it can be learned, but the learning curve for the striker fired weapons is an easier task, for me at least. I'm a very long way from an inexperienced shooter, and I have owned both platforms. For an every day carry gun, I have found only one other platform that is as readily acceptable for a new shooter and that is the plain old S&W revolver (yeah, I have a huge preference for the brand!). There is just more to understand about the 1911 platform as well as more that needs to be just right and then left alone with it, in my experience. As always, your mileage may vary, but when it comes to an every day carry that can become acceptable to the majority of shooters in the quickest time frame, it's really hard to beat the striker fired auto if you don't want to carry a revolver.

I personally don't think there is a better choice than the Shield platform in which ever caliber you shoot best and feel comfortable with. It's very easy and comfortable to carry and in my experience, has been a very reliable platform. Then again, which ever platform, brand, style fits your hands the best, and which ever one you can shoot the best and the easiest (under extreme pressure!) is what you ought to get for yourself. Only you can decide that for yourself. We all have our own preferences, and many of us have spent some time wandering around trying to find what is best for us. That can be fun as well as expensive!

To me this choice involves two basically radically different platforms. How long are you willing to spend getting to know a new platform to the extent that you arer completely comfortable with it's operation so that you can hopefully use it under extreme stress if that should become necessary? Are you willing to trust your life to a relatively new operating system? I can tell you that under stress, you are going to default to what's most programmed into your subconscious mind! For me, for minute of bad guy, the Shield is my choice. You gotta decide for yourself, and you gotta take my advice and opinion FWIW to YOU! Same with all the other advice and opinions given here. Any smaller model (read shorter barreled model) of a semi auto firearm is more sensitive to spring weights and ammo choices in order to be reliable. The Shield is purpose built for the purpose for which it is intended. It's not just a full sized model that's sized downward. Anything mechanical can have difficulties, and it's important for me to be able to deal with those as much as I can for myself to keep my EDC's running reliably. Thankfully, that has not been any kind of problem for me with my Shields. Good luck in your choice. I just encourage you to hold, handle, and shoot as many of the different choices for your own self before you make up your mind about this very important choice!

 

[V0OBWxZS16]

Hi, I have both, and love both . . . though the Kimber Ultra CDP is at another magnitude of "finer" as a handgun.
(snip)

Is that a CDP or an Ultra Elite?

 

[b_san]

Anyone may take any chance they want. I'll continue to tell people to be careful with it.

Perhaps this will help you so you don't give out any further unwarranted cautionary advice...

Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer "NO" to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer "YES" to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), , or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.

 

[Bill ch]

The problem with Kimber is their customer service

If you have ever owned a kimber and had to send it back for warranty service and put up with the B.S. from the service department, you would never buy one again.

I have a 9 Shield and love it. Was thinking about a larger caliber carry weapon. Anybody have any experience with both of these? In California it will be harder to get a .45 Shield, and the Kimbers are readily available.

Obviously completely different platforms, love the feel and trigger of the Kimber, but thinking it would be better for consistency keeping same platform.

Help me decide.

 

[ditrina]

If you have ever owned a kimber and had to send it back for warranty service and put up with the B.S. from the service department, you would never buy one again.

Interesting.. can you give an example/personal experience.
Thanks..