Shield is UNSAFE

SO - they bought the cheapest ammo they could find and it blew up the gun - I got it now! Problem solved.

Hope it was worth it. Glad everybody is okay though.

anybody been able to find an actual address or phone number for these people or is this luckgunners house brand loaded by his brother in law in the basement?
 
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I've reloaded countless shotgun shells and lots of 45 ACP. I am a fan of the 40 S&W, but after careful thought I decided against reloading the 40. But I'm with the folks that think it must have been a squib, given the extent of damage.

I have something over a thousand rounds through my 40 Shield and no issues. But KABOOMS happen. Google "1911 kaboom" and you will see horror pics of lots of what is probably the most highly regarded pistol of all time. Try it for other guns... Kabooms happen, mostly with reloads.
 
suspicions confirmed - Lucky Gunner, Ammo.net, BulkAmmo.com, AmmoforSale.com, GunsForSale.com, and Military Ballistic Industries (the brand of bulk reloaded ammunition Lucky Gunner sells) are the same exact limited liability company according to the tennessee secretary of state.
 
Thanks for the input everyone. I am traveling so slow to respond. Details on the reloads:

Military Ballistic Industries Ammunition
.40S&W 180gr. FMJ
MBI-47484

Thanks for the info... I would also contact them with pics of your gun,and if you can find the brass case that would be better , I would go back to where you shoot if possible to look at whats there and you may get lucky and find a damage case
 
I'm wondering if this is a case of a shooter doing the tap rack immediate action drill that is taught in gun fighting classes.



Great reflex to have if someone is trying to hurt you but really bad when there isn't a threat and there is a problem.



I question the ammo, either the shot before or the shot that took it apart.


I had a squib round of factory Herters ammo in my Glock 42. I was at the rack part of tap, rack, reassess, when my brain caught up and said the last shot felt weak. The immediate action drill has been so ingrained in my mind that it was pretty much automatic. Field stripped it and found the bullet made about halfway down the barrel. Glad I didn't try to fire another round. :)
 
I would contact the ammo company.
They might replace the gun.
 
Tough deal to have a gun blow up.

I have to say that I would never have to worry about the results of shooting a 40 cal Shield with a bullet holding a 180 gr projectile because I wouldn't have any desire to do so. That's like shooting plus P 38 special loads out of a baby chief for target practice. I know you can, but why? Because you enjoy pain? The gun is too light and too small to feel comfortable shooting that round at a pressure that would make the projectile perform well enough for why I would be utilizing a Shield in the first place (personal protection).

I suppose a too large of projectile may have been the first leverage point which then lead to a greater likelihood of a round with too high pressure. I doubt S&W advises not to use rounds with 180 gr bullets in the 40 cal Shield but it would interesting to see if SAAMI has specs designed specifically for guns within this platform.

I think everyone here would agree that a 4006 could handle significantly higher pressures than a Shield, so the ammo specs should be different just like they are when shooting a SAA Colt vs. a Ruger Blackhawk.

EDIT: Just checked SAAMI's velocity and pressure data and 180 gr is at the top of their measurements.
 
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Tough deal to have a gun blow up.

I have to say that I would never have to worry about the results of shooting a 40 cal Shield with a bullet holding a 180 gr projectile because I wouldn't have any desire to do so. That's like shooting plus P 38 special loads out of a baby chief for target practice. I know you can, but why? Because you enjoy pain? The gun is too light and too small to feel comfortable shooting that round at a pressure that would make the projectile perform well enough for why I would be utilizing a Shield in the first place (personal protection).

I suppose a too large of projectile may have been the first leverage point which then lead to a greater likelihood of a round with too high pressure. I doubt S&W advises not to use rounds with 180 gr bullets in the 40 cal Shield but it would interesting to see if SAAMI has specs designed specifically for guns within this platform.

I think everyone here would agree that a 4006 could handle significantly higher pressures than a Shield, so the ammo specs should be different just like they are when shooting a SAA Colt vs. a Ruger Blackhawk.

EDIT: Just checked SAAMI's velocity and pressure data and 180 gr is at the top of their measurements.

Obviously your not a 40 caliber owner. The 180 grain bullet is pretty much the standard weight bullet for this caliber and very common. Typical range loads such as WWB or Federal Champion feature a 180 grain bullet loaded to a velocity in the ballpark of 950 fps with SD loads using a 180 grain HP running at 1050 fps.

Per SAAMI the maximum pressure for the 40 S&W is 35,000 psi, which is the same as 9mm and 357 Magnum. There is no definition for a +P designation by SAAMI for the 40 caliber but the longer 10mm does feature a higher operating pressure of 37,500 psi. For the 9mm there is a +P definition and the operating pressure for that variant is 38,500 psi.

Problems specific to the 40 caliber that led to a mistaken belief found on the Net that this caliber operates at a higher pressure than other calibers are almost universally associated with semi auto pistols that have a feed ramp cut rather deeply into the chamber in the barrel. This results in an area of the case that is not supported. Early Glock 40 calibers featured this design feature and the typical result was fired cases that had a distinct bulge. This issue was seen so widely that brass that is bulged in the rearward portion of the case is referred to as being Glocked.

Of note, a feed ramp that is cut somewhat deeply into the chamber on a semi auto is usually a result of necessity. One result of making the barrel length shorter on a semi auto based on the Browning tilting barrel design principle is that as the barrel is made shorter the movement of the slide must also be made shorter. At some point the feed ramp must be cut deeper into the chamber in order for a fresh load to be fed into the chamber. As a basic rule of thumb chamber intrusion by the feed ramp starts to become necessary at the point of 3 times the overall length of the cartridge. BTW, typical OAL for the 40 caliber is 1.125 inch and 3 times 1.125 is equal to 3.375 inch.

Finally because Force is equal to Pressure times Area a larger diameter cylinder must feature thicker walls in order to contain a specific pressure than a thinner cylinder. This means that if a 40 caliber case has a wall thickness in the case head that is identical to a 9mm case that 40 calliber case will be more prone to bulging in an unsupported area. Which is what led to early Glocks in the 40 caliber bulging cases. Because Glocks were originally designed for the 9mm and were intentionally designed to have exceptional feed reliability. One way to achieve exceptional feed reliability in a mass produced semi auto is to use a "gentler" angle on the feed ramp. So Glock used a 9mm feed ramp angle on their early 40 calibers and they "Glocked" the brass. Note, SAAMI does NOT set standards for case wall thickness or case head designs, probably because they don't want to be liable.

So, look at the Shield for a moment. It features a 3.1 inch long barrel, a length below that 3 times OAL magic point that allows "full" case head support. So it's a certainty that the feed ramp intrusion in a Shield will be less than ideal and with some brands of cases it may "Glock" the cases. On multiple occasions we have seen reports of the 40 caliber Shield producing Case Head Ruptures. Reports of this different type of event being associated with the Shield are likely what led to the OP concluding this was a fault of the pistol.

So, let's cut him some slack there. However, we can blame him for shooting reloads he didn't make for himself with his own hands. The ONLY reloads I shoot are my own and I would not reload for the Shield due to the shorter chamber support this pistol features. Actually I won't purchase a 40 caliber Shield simply because I don't want to deal with the bulged cases that would result.

This incident bears absolutely NO resemblance to that happens with a Case Head Rupture. Those events typically blow the magazine out the bottom of the grip and sometimes split the frame, they do not blow the barrel into shrapnel. I'm repeating myself but this was without any doubt at all the result of a severe overcharge. Looking on the net for this particular reloader they claim to use "Hodgson" powder. It just happens that Titegroup is made by Hodgdon and I think it's very likely that is the powder used in these reloads. I think that it's also nearly certain that the ram on the reloading press was cycled twice while the shell plate was only cycled once. The result of that would be a case with 2 TIMES as much powder as intended with an end result of a very blown up pistol.

I also have a sneaking hunch that whoever produced this ammunition won't step up an admit fault, they will blame this failure on the pistol due to the Case Head Rupture events now well circulated on the Net. Hope I'm wrong about that but the "web site" for Military Ballistic Industries has a distinct fly by night appearance and I'll bet there is absolutely no way at all to "login".
 
well said scooter. I was gonna say the same thing but there are just times when I cant muster the energy to correct people and their misconceptions. Thank You.
The internet is a wonderful place except for all the misinformation.
 
I would also add this to the discussion. I only load .40 these days. I shoot them out of my shield .40.
I use a product called a "bulge buster" on my .40 cases and It doesnt show any unsupported case problems with the brass as I process them. Not that it cant happen but my spent brass dont show any signs of it when run through the bulge buster.
 
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The gun was not being rapid fired, in fact very slow target shooting. With all due respect, and after being called a troll, have you ever seen a chamber and slide completely exploded? That is what I am trying to find out here.

I have been reloading my entire life and I have never seen anything like this. You cannot fit enough powder in a .40 shell to blow every piece of the firearm apart.

Smith says NEVER shoot RELOADS:eek:
 
"I have been reloading my entire life and I have never seen anything like this. You cannot fit enough powder in a .40 shell to blow every piece of the firearm apart."

wanna bet - you supply the gun and Ill supply the load and the video to prove it.
 
I've never understood why people would buy commercial reloads when there's factory new ammo available for less $.

I'd suggested titegroup earlier as a powder that could very easily fit far more than a safe charge in a .40 cartridge. The fact that Military Balistics says they use Hodgdon powders makes this seem even more likely...either as an accidental double charge or by using the wrong powder for the selected volume. Equal volumes of titegroup and clays will have very different outcomes.
 
Every time I am "here" I learn a little more........I don't use "re-maned" parts on my vehicles because I want "factory performance" and no "questions" in my mind. I have worked in factories most of my life, and there is a difference in "QC" in the "Name Brand"..... here in the U.S. at least, IMO.
In my short time shooting my shield, I can see a big difference between the "less costly" 9 mm ammo and the "better/ more costly" ammo. For the purpose that I practice with my Shield, and for the results I want should I ever NEED it.....I have a hard time "trying to save a buck"..... I understand many use "re-maned" parts for their vehicles, and "reloaded ammo", that's your choice.
To OP I am sorry to hear of the injury to your brother, and the total loss of the gun. I hope things are resolved in a way you are comfortable with.
 
I've never understood why people would buy commercial reloads when there's factory new ammo available for less $. .

IMO people buy Commercial reloads because they want what is assumed the best reloaded ammo! Commercial reloads IMO follow the same safety concerns and Factory new ammo. Only difference is one case is used the other is new! Now I agree some remanufactured ammo use's cheaper components but a good Co. will stay with quality! FYI I buy new as the few extra $$ doesn't hurt my budget! BUT if $$$ were tight I would go commercial reloads .... I am also planning on reloading my own again in the future! The OP did NOTHING wrong buying commercial reloads from a Co. that seems to have a good rep.
 
Scooter123, you undoubtedly know way more about this than me, but I'm not sure my post was in any general terms wrong. What I was simply saying is that a 180 gr load, from a Shield, is a larger projectile than I would be interested in shooting from that gun and is at the top end of the spectrum for 40 cal loads. This would be especially true for this gun, I would think. It's not comfortable and not what the gun is best suited for, in my opinion.

I would imagine that all of the other details you list also hold true, but for simpletons like myself it's the utilitarian principles that make sense to me.

I reduce risk towards blowing up my guns by using them appropriately and with loads that make sense for their application. Hopefully that keeps me from posting pictures like those posted at the beginning of this thread.

My solution to his problem is very simple, avoid the top end of the 40 cal spectrum and you will inevitably avoid a greater chance of this happening. I say this since he seems to already have an opinion about the gun simply not being able to handle the load he chose to shoot. Although, as you and others have postulated, too much powder regardless of projectile size caused this failure.

Because I would consider myself an amateur gun enthusiast and not a reloader, I have to revert to simple concepts to keep myself safe. That was the point of my post, not to add misinformation. Thread is titled "Shield is unsafe", which I am disputing in simple terms. Not sure that adds any value to this discussion though.
 
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