Shooting a handgun while holding a flashlight

[Mike SC Hunter]

An adult racoon in 3' or deeper water will drown darn near any dog foolish enough to tangle with it.
I've seen the result more than once.

WYT-P
Skyhunter

You are absolutely correct...............Coon has a BIG advantage when in water.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Prop your gun hand across you flashlight hand ,,,,,,,,Makes it more steady and ya can see the sights better against the target.

 

[mscampbell2734]

Your issue is not uncommon for people who have not practiced flashlight/gun shooting. There are several techniques ranging from the old FBI, flashlight up and out, technique to those requiring a specially setup flashlight to shoot holding the light cigar style.

Regardless of which technique you go with you have to get some practice in. Just knowing about it and actually do it under any level of stress are not the same thing.

 

[AJ]

The problem with the Harries Technique is identical to that of laser sights - once on, your adversary knows exactly where to shoot. I want my light as far from anything I don't want shot as I can get it. Yes, that requires practice.

Don't care for using a flashlight in my hand or one mounted on the gun or a laser mounted on a gun. All will given your position away. I prefer to use ambient light in the house. Enough stuff in the house has lights showing displays that it is never really dark in a room.

 

[steelslaver]

Don't care for using a flashlight in my hand or one mounted on the gun or a laser mounted on a gun. All will given your position away. I prefer to use ambient light in the house. Enough stuff in the house has lights showing displays that it is never really dark in a room.

In a defense situation being both invisible and silent is golden.

To me

USING A FLASHLIGHT OR LASER MAKES YOU A VERY EASY TARGET TO ACQUIRE.

 

[phwillie]

I was quail hunting once when a big male pointer I had flushed a coon out of a brush pile by a creek. They fell into the creek and luckily the water was about 18 inches deep. The coon was balled up on the dogs head trying to push it under. I got the dog loose and the coon decided I was next but a load of bird shot at 2 feet changed his mind forever.

 

[DixieRanger]

Just one'a those things in the heat of the moment. Harries method best to give stability to both gun and light. Doubt reflection was the problem. Likely adrenalin was?

 

[Squib_Load]

Last night took my large German Shepherd outside and he immediately jumped on a large raccoon next to our pond. The raccoon made it the water with Max in pursuit. The next sight was the coon had Max under water. I fired a shot from a 642 I keep in my pocket and Max was able to get away and headed to the house. I was holding the flashlight and the coon was swimming away, 15 to 20 feet. I took careful aim and saw the shot splashed a few inches to the left. Careful placement of the next 2 shots got the same results. The last shot I placed to the right and hit him dead center.

My thoughts are the flashlight reflection on the revolver caused this? Has anyone had similar results shooting at night?

Your German SHepherd needs to read "How To Be a German Shepherd and Get Respect"

I have a 10 year old, 85 lb GS/Border Collie mix and he kills anything that comes on our 1½ acre property: coyotes, foxes, raccoons, skunks, squirrels, chipmunks, and stray dogs and cats. He attacks the bears and drives them off. Ben is a monster ... and a gentle, lovable lap dog.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I don't have a pool. The long-term score in my backyard is Dogs 19 Raccoons 0. Throw in a few possums and squirrels and a bird or two. That's almost 30 years of various dogs not tolerating wildlife in their territory.

 

[mscampbell2734]

A lot of people have very strong OPINION about using lights and guns but few people have any real training or experience.

I just retired after 30 plus years of law enforcement experience and my list of professional training is extensive.

Flashlight techniques have come a LONG way since the FBI first taught the flashlight out technique. The theory was the user would be able to light up the area/suspect and stay behind the light in the shadows so to speak, and be out of the line of return fire. The reality is as lights got bigger and heavier in the 70s-90s, think Maglight and Streamlight, users ended up holding the light lower and lower. Plus the user is shooting one hand, always something to avoid if possible.

This evolved into the "turret" technique, where the user intentionally rested the rear of a 5 cell light on their shoulder, thrust the gun out with the other hand and swivelled at the waist tank turret style. Less tiring on a long search and the spill from the light would illuminate the front sight of the gun aid in aimed fire. Still shooting one handed.

From there the various two hand techniques came about.

Harries, back of the hand to back of the hand, allowed the gun and light to be used as a unit and the support hand to offer a certain level of stability to the gun hand. Based on the Weaver technique. This technique works regardless of the style/type of light and does not require special equipment.

Next the Ayoob technique light in support hand, thumb on switch, base of thumb to base of thumb, both hands thrust forward. This and the Chapman are based on the isosceles technique. Requires a light with a side switch.

Chapman is similar to Ayoob but the smaller three fingers holding the light wrap around the frontstrap of the gun. Chapman is slower then Ayoob to get into action but is more stable and better suited to longer range searching.

Rogers Surefire. Requires a small light with a center ring and tail switch. For a period of time the FBI issued the Surefire G2 combat light and taught this. Works well but requires a specially set up light.

The common factor in all of these later techniques is the focus on using the light and weapon together. Clearly identifying the target, determining if its a threat and delivering accurate aimed fire. NOT avoiding return fire. A more offensive mind set if you will.

Weapon mounted lights are the next step in this evolution of gun light technique. WML allow a user to positively identify a potential threat as an actual threat OR non-threat and if a threat deliver accurate fire on target as quickly as possible. No other method is as fast or accurate as WML PERIOD.

When I attended the FBI Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor course in 2007 about half the class had WML and half not. I took two guns, one with and one without. I had already been an instructor for 6 years was considered a fairly good shot. During night shooting it quickly became clear WML gave the shooter a clear speed and accuracy edge over ANY gun/light technique.

Being afraid of return fire is part of the overall problem. Avoiding being shot verse accurate and fast fire. One or the other, only you can decide what you consider the first priority.

 

[14daMoney]

Harries Technique for flashlight pistol/revolver shooting. https://michaelharries.com/harries-flashlight-technique/ Was taught this at Battalion Schools in a course designed by Jeff Cooper in 1987.

watched my backup take a .357 across his left collarbone doing this, damn lucky guy.....

 

[Ft. Defiance]

Last night took my large German Shepherd outside and he immediately jumped on a large raccoon next to our pond. The raccoon made it the water with Max in pursuit. The next sight was the coon had Max under water. I fired a shot from a 642 I keep in my pocket and Max was able to get away and headed to the house. I was holding the flashlight and the coon was swimming away, 15 to 20 feet. I took careful aim and saw the shot splashed a few inches to the left. Careful placement of the next 2 shots got the same results. The last shot I placed to the right and hit him dead center.

My thoughts are the flashlight reflection on the revolver caused this? Has anyone had similar results shooting at night?

I was taught the Harries technique in the day but that was on large targets upclose with a service size revolver. I think any technique will be challenged under your circumstances.

 

[Ft. Defiance]

Harries Technique for flashlight pistol/revolver shooting. https://michaelharries.com/harries-flashlight-technique/ Was taught this at Battalion Schools in a course designed by Jeff Cooper in 1987.

We were taught the same but we used 4 inch revolvers and the old style 4 cell maglights. With a pocket flashlight and an airweight j frame that would be hard

 

[Revelation]

My Grandfather lost more than 1 good coon houndView attachment 756145 like that and told me he felt like a coon could drown a man. Max is a very large, muscular 120 pound boy that I’ve seen rip through armadillos like they were nothing. Max can hardly get up this morning. He’s moving like I move.

Max, I hope you did not get bit, and if so, have the Racoon remains tested for rabies. Max, I hope you set your jaws on bad 2 legged bad guys from now on.

 

[biku324]

Weapon mounted lights are the next step in this evolution of gun light technique. WML allow a user to positively identify a potential threat as an actual threat OR non-threat and if a threat deliver accurate fire on target as quickly as possible. No other method is as fast or accurate as WML PERIOD.

When I attended the FBI Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor course in 2007 about half the class had WML and half not. I took two guns, one with and one without. I had already been an instructor for 6 years was considered a fairly good shot. During night shooting it quickly became clear WML gave the shooter a clear speed and accuracy edge over ANY gun/light technique.

Being afraid of return fire is part of the overall problem. Avoiding being shot verse accurate and fast fire7th. One or the other, only you can decide what you consider the first priority.

Good points and good discussion. I've been a certified firearms instructor since 1983 and last attended a firearms instructor course in 2023 in Mogadishu.

The problem with weapon-mounted lights and laser sights remains the same - adversaries might be anywhere around you and in multiples. Add large building interiors or complex outdoor search areas and the problems compound. WML can work IF you have enough officers in a reasonably known search area and IF you are reasonably sure you have only one hostile. If there is even slight information of a booby trap or primary and secondary IEDs, WMLs or lasers give the operator a perfect decision point for pressing the button to maximize casualties.

WML or lasers can get one or two officers who don't have specific information on where the suspect(s) is hidden ambushed and slaughtered. I'd post a picture of that aftermath but don't want to get 'dinged.'

For every new piece of technology or new tactic there is quickly a countermeasure.

 

[Doug M.]

Messing with raccoons is highly likely to be bad for virtually any dog.

 

[mscampbell2734]

Good points and good discussion. I've been a certified firearms instructor since 1983 and last attended a firearms instructor course in 2023 in Mogadishu.

The problem with weapon-mounted lights and laser sights remains the same - adversaries might be anywhere around you and in multiples. Add large building interiors or complex outdoor search areas and the problems compound. WML can work IF you have enough officers in a reasonably known search area and IF you are reasonably sure you have only one hostile. If there is even slight information of a booby trap or primar and secondary IEDs, WMLs or lasers give the operator a perfect decision point for pressing the button to maximize casualties.

WML or lasers can get one or two officers who don't have specific information one where the suspect(s) is hidden ambushed and slaughtered. I'd post a picture of that aftermath but don't want to get 'dinged.'

For every new piece of technology or new tactic there is quickly a countermeasure.

Giving away your position and providing an aim point has always been an issue.

Look at the M60 tank with it's massive cannon mounted spot light.

Sonar and radar are the same. A sub that actively searches for an enemy can be detected much further away by another sub that's running silent and listening. Same with radar.

BUT we are the good guys. We can not just shoot at shadows and "I think I saw something" We have to know exactly what we're shooting at. In that regard we're always going to be at a disadvantage.

WMLs do have their uses. The biggest issue is people believing it's WML or handheld. The answer is both. Most situations will not require fast and accurate fire in low light conditions. When the situation does require aimed fire the WML is king. Some tactical situations might be better served by a team with one person using a huge light and another person being ready to return fire. Sort of like in Dirty Harry.

General searching and checking that bump in the night is something else. A good handheld light AND being able to quickly and seamlessly go to one of the gun/light techniques might be the best option.

Here's a good video talking about this from a CCW viewpoint.

 

[Rust E. Badge]

How does a 30 lbs. racoon get the best of a 90 lbs. German Shepherd?

Because the 30 lb racoon is 10 times as tough as a 90 lb Shepherd.

 

[Rust E. Badge]

Last night took my large German Shepherd outside and he immediately jumped on a large raccoon next to our pond. The raccoon made it the water with Max in pursuit. The next sight was the coon had Max under water. I fired a shot from a 642 I keep in my pocket and Max was able to get away and headed to the house. I was holding the flashlight and the coon was swimming away, 15 to 20 feet. I took careful aim and saw the shot splashed a few inches to the left. Careful placement of the next 2 shots got the same results. The last shot I placed to the right and hit him dead center.

My thoughts are the flashlight reflection on the revolver caused this? Has anyone had similar results shooting at night?

Mostly caused by curling your trigger finger or all of your fingers during the final stage of the press. Causes left hits regardless of sights and lights. This is the main case of right-handed shooters hitting left of the POA.

Google "Beyond the Muzzle" for an instructor level book that covers this and other critical topics.

 

[RT44nut]

Thank you all for every response and taking the time. Some things were helpful and I’ll try in the future. I didn’t mention that it wax very dark and raining. I could not have seen them without a flashlight. The light and gun go out with me every night. I do normally shoot with 2 hands. The 44 mags I still love to shoot require that at 71 and did earlier in life. I was as calm as I could be thinking my best friend was being drowned. I will try shooting one handed this week and see my grouping compared with 2 hands. I was still very proud of my old self to be able to kill the coon under those conditions. Max is doing well. Still doesn’t want me rubbing his ear the coon bit through. He might could have handled the coon on dry land but I would still had to intervene.