Sig found liable for gun discharge

[BB57]

There is a lot of speculation about Sigs and some is pure hogwash. One thing is for sure, lawyers can easily switch back and forth regarding their support or distain of any case depending on who is paying. Another thing is that lawyers can get extremely verbose where a few words would do. Look at the thousands of pages of laws drawn up by the lawyers in the beltway.

I used to be in an interesting position investigating rape and sex abuse cases involving minors. The district attorneys all played the same role, but a public defender or pro bono attorneys might at different times in represent the defendant or act on behalf of the minor, when the accused was the victims relative.

This often created a situation where the attorney representing the minor child would sing praises to my character, intellect, ethics, credentials and years of experience as God's gift to investigation and interrogation in the morning. That afternoon, the same attorney representing a defendant with absolutely nothing on which to hang a credible defense would attack my character, intellect, ethics, credentials and experience.

It was just business.

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I am however seeing consequences for Sig. For example, a customer at a gunshow yesterday was looking at Sigs a vendor had for sale and the vendor was trying to explain away all the controversy with the Sig P320. He sighted the "millions" of P320s out there and how few incidents their were and blamed those on the shooter.

Without arguing the facts of his defense. It wasn't working. The customer was not convinced the P320 did not have a problem, and even if it did not, he was not comfortable carrying a firearm where over 100 people have managed to shoot themselves with it.

Worse, his distrust spread to the other Sigs like the P365. I stepped in at this point and explained the very different designs of the Sig P320 and P365 and why what is suspected to be happening with the P320 can't happen with the P365.

My impression? Sig, and Sig's attorney's have totally blown it with their 7 year long "we need to deny everything" legal defense. They have successfully avoided liability in the majority of cases and have avoided a mandatory recall that at this point would probably bankrupt them, but they lost consumer confidence in their products.

With other options that do the same thing without shooting their owners, people will buy other products, even if the SIg P320 doesn't have a problem.

 

[BE Mike]

I used to be in an interesting position investigating rape and sex abuse cases involving minors. The district attorneys all played the same role, but a public defender or pro bono attorneys might at different times in represent the defendant or act on behalf of the minor, when the accused was the victims relative.

This often created a situation where the attorney representing the minor child would sing praises to my character, intellect, ethics, credentials and years of experience as God's gift to investigation and interrogation in the morning. That afternoon, the same attorney representing a defendant with absolutely nothing on which to hang a credible defense would attack my character, intellect, ethics, credentials and experience.

It was just business.

----

I am however seeing consequences for Sig. For example, a customer at a gunshow yesterday was looking at Sigs a vendor had for sale and the vendor was trying to explain away all the controversy with the Sig P320. He sighted the "millions" of P320s out there and how few incidents their were and blamed those on the shooter.

Without arguing the facts of his defense. It wasn't working. The customer was not convinced the P320 did not have a problem, and even if it did not, he was not comfortable carrying a firearm where over 100 people have managed to shoot themselves with it.

Worse, his distrust spread to the other Sigs like the P365. I stepped in at this point and explained the very different designs of the Sig P320 and P365 and why what is suspected to be happening with the P320 can't happen with the P365.

My impression? Sig, and Sig's attorney's have totally blown it with their 7 year long "we need to deny everything" legal defense. They have successfully avoided liability in the majority of cases and have avoided a mandatory recall that at this point would probably bankrupt them, but they lost consumer confidence in their products.

With other options that do the same thing without shooting their owners, people will buy other products, even if the SIg P320 doesn't have a problem.

IDK, Ruger, S&W and Glock weathered their storms. Even Remington survived their Model 700 rifle difficulties. Of course Ruger ended up having to print a paragraph on their barrels and S&W conceded the IL. Of course everyone and anyone has instant access to the internet and can make any claims that they want. Also, many folks who screw up have a hard time admitting it.

 

[BB57]

IDK, Ruger, S&W and Glock weathered their storms. Even Remington survived their Model 700 rifle difficulties. Of course Ruger ended up having to print a paragraph on their barrels and S&W conceded the IL. Of course everyone and anyone has instant access to the internet and can make any claims that they want. Also, many folks who screw up have a hard time admitting it.

I don't recall any major gun tubers or earlier gun rag writers actually saying Glocks were unsafe. That's exactly what is happening now with Sig.

Glock was smart enough to incorporate a striker fire design that never comes to full cock until the trigger is pressed, as well as a trigger safety. They not only accepted the downside of a heavier trigger pull, but regarded it as a safety feature.

The same is true with DA/SA revolvers and pistols. You have to manually cock them to get a light SA trigger pull, and the long and fairly heavy DA trigger acts as a safety.

Assuming it also has an exposed hammer, a DA revolver or pistol can be holstered with a thumb over the back of the hammer to get immediate tactile feedback of a trigger intrusion. A similar option is available for most Glocks, where pressing on the back plate prevents the striker from coming to full cock and being released by an intrusion.
Sig paid heed to none of that in the P320, using a fully cocked striker to get a short, light trigger pull. That shortens the chain of events required to get an ND or AD, or as alleged a "UD".

They might weather the storm they created, but I see significant design changes in their future.

 

[CRT2]

I don't recall any major gun tubers or earlier gun rag writers actually saying Glocks were unsafe. That's exactly what is happening now with Sig.

Glock was smart enough to incorporate a striker fire design that never comes to full cock until the trigger is pressed, as well as a trigger safety. They not only accepted the downside of a heavier trigger pull, but regarded it as a safety feature.

The same is true with DA/SA revolvers and pistols. You have to manually cock them to get a light SA trigger pull, and the long and fairly heavy DA trigger acts as a safety.

Assuming it also has an exposed hammer, a DA revolver or pistol can be holstered with a thumb over the back of the hammer to get immediate tactile feedback of a trigger intrusion. A similar option is available for most Glocks, where pressing on the back plate prevents the striker from coming to full cock and being released by an intrusion.
Sig paid heed to none of that in the P320, using a fully cocked striker to get a short, light trigger pull. That shortens the chain of events required to get an ND or AD, or as alleged a "UD".

They might weather the storm they created, but I see significant design changes in their future.

"Glock Leg" comes to mind.

 

[Inkgardener]

This is a huge problem for Sig, but it's only half of the problem.

Recently, I watched a police chief discuss his department's decision to move on from the Sig, and how it is financially impacting his department. They paid $1000 for each of them.

Why would a police department pay $1000 for anything when they can get a Glock for less than $300. Is a Sig 3x better than a Glock? No, and the recent news headlines make the argument it's not even equal.