This guy nails it the striker is in the slide and the sear is in the frame and the 320's just have too much play in their slides and frames. In all my years of firearms I've never seen a gun with this much slop in it. Add a security holster that depresses the trigger slightly and then have the gun bumped in the wrong place and you get Bang. A few years ago I heard that Sig hired a executive from Kimber that had pumped their numbers up at the expense of quality. It appears he has done the same at SIG. Also I believe the Army has not had the problems because they still require their MP's to carry with an empty chamber. The Air Force treats their Security Police more like civilian cops.
SIG P320 Discharges?
- Thread starter biku324
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This guy nails it the striker is in the slide and the sear is in the frame and the 320's just have too much play in their slides and frames. In all my years of firearms I've never seen a gun with this much slop in it. Add a security holster that depresses the trigger slightly and then have the gun bumped in the wrong place and you get Bang. A few years ago I heard that Sig hired a executive from Kimber that had pumped their numbers up at the expense of quality. It appears he has done the same at SIG. Also I believe the Army has not had the problems because they still require their MP's to carry with an empty chamber. The Air Force treats their Security Police more like civilian cops.
The gap causes the play and that is the problem.
On the carrying with a round chambered issue, one of the reasons the British switched from Brownings to Glocks was this very reason. They ordered empty chambers on the High Powers for safety reasons. But, disengaging the safety and racking the slide takes time. With the growing concern of green on blue shootings they looked for a handgun that would allow safe carry with a round in the chamber. Time saved is lives saved. They chose the Glock. That happened in 2013. The 320 came out the next year. The trials that led to the military adopting the M17 took place 2015-2017. The 226 hadn't gotten the British contracts. Was the 320/M17 a rushed design by a company banking on government contracts? I don't know, but 2 years isn't a long time.
About those contracts, They don't just supply the handguns, they supply the rifles, too, with the XM-7 coming. Also the LMGs with the M250 which is to replace the M249. If they were to lose the pistol contract they might lose it all. A lot of financial incentive to aggressively defend the guns reputation.
About those contracts, They don't just supply the handguns, they supply the rifles, too, with the XM-7 coming. Also the LMGs with the M250 which is to replace the M249. If they were to lose the pistol contract they might lose it all. A lot of financial incentive to aggressively defend the guns reputation.
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Well, I'm not sure how many Sig 320/M17-18 owners have bothered to read the manual included with every new firearm, but I would suspect the number would be few if any. If you refer to page 66 it says do not lubricate striker assembly. Lubricant on the striker could cause the striker to move on its own if jarred when oil is where it is not supposed to be. How many of the un-commanded discharges were caused by improper cleaning and lubrication?
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Yes, Ron Cohen.
Faulkner
Member
Firearm safety rule #1:
Treat every firearm like it's a Sig Sauer P320.
Treat every firearm like it's a Sig Sauer P320.
smith46wesson
Member
This didn’t age well…
I watched a You-Tube video last night where the "poster" placed his finger on the face of the trigger and appeared to move the trigger a slight amount (like taking up a slight amount of slack) he bumped the back of the slide with his non-shooting hand slightly, the firearm discharged, he did this what appeared to be multiple times. So that brings to mind, the holster is still a suspect in "taking up the slack" and any minimal shock to the handgun causes a "un-commanded" discharge.
Is there a link to a source? Not disagreeing but cannot find any hard data, For it to matter to private citizens we need to know how many are going to military,, government agencies and police who have no choice and how many to private citizens who do have a choice.
Sig is now suing the Washington State Patrol for banning the P320 from their training facilities. Nice...
In the video, he says the grip module was cerokoted. Does that mean it was baked in an oven? Would that affect tolerances?
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Every gun is expected to bounce around in a holster, a car, a jeep, or just walking and running, because guns are used in defense. The are used in defense by police, military and little old ladies.
Every gun should be safe in any holster that does not pull the trigger. Negligence is a body of law that says everyone who makes everything should reasonably see things that are likely to happen and design a product that is safe when it experiences those anticipated bouncing and pressures
That is also shown by the drop tests,, perhaps they should do more drop testing.
Body count always tells us something. Kids drown in swimming pools every day, but it is usually not the fault of the pool. In this case guns are going off inside of holsters, that should never happen unless something gets inside the trigger guard. The FBI report is not one to blow off. It will take some time to sort it out.
Puller
Member
S&W and Ruger definitely.
Not so much Colt which hasn't produced any general issue revolver or pistol acceptable for military or LE use in at least 30 years.
I can tell you that is one lawsuit that is going nowhere. Think about it. A government agency or any person has a right to buy anything they want.....Or not.
If me or you or an agency decides something is unsafe (in our mind) and ban it from use by our family or employees, then what theory of law does the company have to force us to continue buying that product?
If I want to ban Dunkin Donuts on my property i can do that, for any reason or no reason at all.
This is a publicity stunt to try and get facts out into the media to show the number of cases is small or that the reasons for the ban is flawed. Dumb move on the part of Sig, the more the issue is in the media the more of us that will just stay with Glock or some other plastic gun that is not being blamed as dangerous.
That is NOT a legal way to get around a negligence claim. These are products intended for combat, they should be able to handle too much lube, too little lube or blood, sweat, dust and dirt to some extent.
To say too much lube will cause the gun to fire accidentally, is called an admission against interest, it is an admission of a flaw of design. That alone would let me nail any design engineer or product specialist in a trial.
On accidental discharges, the design requires a much higher standard of care, that say just how and when to lubricate for best function.
Thank you for pointing that out, it matters.
Firearms are serious business, and where there is smoke there is fire. There are way too many reported issues with this gun. What is going to happen when tens of thousands of these are issued to the military? It is time to call a halt to sales and get to the bottom of the issues with the 320 Sig. I would not take one of these as a gift at this stage until a deterministic analysis is performed on the 320, and Sig should be at the head of the line calling for this review as a responsible producer.
Glenn R. McMannly
Member
What do you have against Dunkin Donuts? I really like there products.
I've owned a G-17, a G-19, a G-43, a G-48 and a G-45...and as much as I tried to like Glocks, I ended up getting rid of all of them. So, clearly I am not a Glock lover, but I thought that the most popular handgun in the world was the Glock 17; not the Sig Sauer P365. Has that changed...?
Give me a Smith & Wesson 3rd Generation semiauto, or give me death!
Glock is typically the pistol most used in the Profession of Arms. As it has the reliability and durability record. Special forces units around the world choose Glock. It was in the majority of Police holsters in the US. The FBI and secret Service carry them. There a known entity. If I need a pistol, its a Glock.
GregPaulman
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Sig came out with a fix for the issue and they correct it and give it a better trigger no charge. Why any police or military would not have known about this since before Covid and not had any effected firearms corrected is shameful on their part.
I think you are conflating the P365, Sig's micro compact, with Sig's P320, a full size service gun. The P365 is designed differently from the P320 and has not had the same issues as the P320.
Different guns.
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