SIG P320 Discharges?

[Law-dog]

Most of those changes occurred well before 2024, and pretty much all of the P320s in recent AD cases have all of those upgrades already. Sig has been quietly "upgrading" parts in the P320 almost continuously since introduction.

And I consider that a problem, they should not do it quietly, they should notify owners there is a risk, and fix it immediately. I understand the lawyer issues, I have been one over 3 decades as a second career. Am I that old> ? Yep, sure am.

 

[biku324]

I had 2 second careers (higher education and overseas contracting) - police 20 year retirement is a good, good thing, and I am very grateful.

 

[Thaddeus Beauregard]

The Sig video in post 189 above was listed on YouTube three years ago, so 2022, so I think your "well before 2024" is accurate. But why do you think "pretty much all of the P320s in recent AD cases have all those upgrades already?" What is your basis for that belief?

Because the models cited in the cases were made after those upgrades, and you can clearly see the lightened trigger designs on those which were added post- "voluntary upgrade." Also, I am very familiar with all of the rolling revisions Sig has made... revisions like changing the spring retention on the sear to help prevent spring crossing. I have intensely studied the P320 and have worked on them a great deal since the highly publicized drop test discharges were demonstrated by Omaha Outdoors in 2017.

 

[Sal1950]

I have a 1911 Colt 45 dating from right around 1915, so it's 110 yo and runs totally reliable.
Another 100% reliable piece is my RIA 1911 in 9mm. Trigger drops at 3 3/4 lbs and breaks like the proverbial glass rod.
Then there's my Tanfoglio Witness Elite Match in 40 and 10mm. I won't brag on how sweet that one is to shoot.
A pox on tupperware striker fired guns.

 

[bph9]

I find it strange that the gun went off with the safety engaged, or was it really engaged?

There have been cases when a striker fired gun with no manual safety was jammed into a holster and the trigger was partially pushed back and later in time then was pushed the rest of the way back when the holster was roughly handled or when the person wearing the holster shifted his body when sitting down putting additional pressure on the side of the holster which pushed the trigger back the rest of the way causing a discharge. This type of discharge happens frequently when "no" holster is used. This happened to Plaxico Burress when dining at a New York Restaurant but he was carrying a Glock not a Sig.

There is a reason that the U.S. Military and the Israeli Army all demanded their troops carry their pistols with the chamber empty even though the previous 1911 is a single action pistol and ditto for the Israeli FN High Power. It was proven that there were far less accidental discharges when carrying the gun with an empty chamber.

Sig sales have certainly been hurt in the civilian market but do to the vast Military bureaucracy I do not think the Military will give up on the Sig 320. Perhaps the empty chamber carry would be good for the U.S. Sig 320 as well, at least until they find out why the model 320 fired off all by itself which will also result in myself staying away from any Sig 320 that comes anywhere near me.

You know the old saying "Where there is smoke, there is fire" and the Sig 320 has been billowing smoke ever since its introduction.

 

[GnarlsR2]

True, but the Glock 19, ugly as it is, never fails and never has those problems. I love sig da/sa pistols. I have a large handgun collection and will likely never have a 320 style action on the place. They fail with only a little wear and tear and the striker slips. Simple problem that can blow your knee cap off.

That will not hurt Sig and the other fine products that they sell, but the recent Air Force injury is going to cost them and cost them big. And it should. It is a faulty design and if Sig were responsible they would offer to modify every one of the free or charge, or they can wait, and some court will likely order that eventually, they are just like Ford and the Pinto, trying to say there are so few it does not matter, unless you are the crippled guy. Time will tell.

As far as Sig leading the edge on all firearms technology, I think that is a stretch, I think KelTec is far ahead of them, nothing there for me, I am just a technology buff and KT is way ahead of the pack.

"As far as Sig leading the edge on all firearms technology, I think that is a stretch, I think KelTec is far ahead of them, nothing there for me, I am just a technology buff and KT is way ahead of the pack."

Which product(s) today does KelTec sell that is more technologically advanced that Sig Sauer?

 

[rockquarry]

"As far as Sig leading the edge on all firearms technology, I think that is a stretch, I think KelTec is far ahead of them, nothing there for me, I am just a technology buff and KT is way ahead of the pack."

Which product(s) today does KelTec sell that is more technologically advanced that Sig Sauer?

These threads continue regularly but never change.

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

Still seeing M18s at the gate on the base.

If I were forced to carry that ugly little brown pistol, it would sure be Israeli carry.

SIG is a shameful company. While I’m not a fan of the Beretta M9, I’d take one over that plastic piece of garbage.

 

[Outpost75]

Still seeing M18s at the gate on the base.

If I were forced to carry that ugly little brown pistol, it would sure be Israeli carry.

SIG is a shameful company. While I’m not a fan of the Beretta M9, I’d take one over that plastic piece of garbage.

Maybe something in the water? VW, HK, SIG all suffer from the same corporate greed and dishonesty.

 

[Greyman50]

I have a 1911 Colt 45 dating from right around 1915, so it's 110 yo and runs totally reliable.
Another 100% reliable piece is my RIA 1911 in 9mm. Trigger drops at 3 3/4 lbs and breaks like the proverbial glass rod.
Then there's my Tanfoglio Witness Elite Match in 40 and 10mm. I won't brag on how sweet that one is to shoot.
A pox on tupperware striker fired guns.

Amen brother. Solution is to go back to the best semi auto pistol ever invented, 1911 types, Very simple solution.

 

[gunbarrel]

I've owned a G-17, a G-19, a G-43, a G-48 and a G-45...and as much as I tried to like Glocks, I ended up getting rid of all of them. So, clearly I am not a Glock lover, but I thought that the most popular handgun in the world was the Glock 17; not the Sig Sauer P365. Has that changed...?

Give me a Smith & Wesson 3rd Generation semiauto, or give me death!

 

[Sal1950]

So, clearly I am not a Glock lover, but I thought that the most popular handgun in the world was the Glock 17; not the Sig Sauer P365. Has that changed...?

Who's doing the counting?
I highly doubt any of them has outsold the 1911 over the last 114 years

 

[Outpost75]

Old old gun that works beats a new one which doesn't.

 

[rockquarry]

Old old gun that works beats a new one which doesn't.
View attachment 779607

I've never owned a striker gun. Are they generally as accurate as the depicted .38/44 S&W?

 

[Onomea]

P365 is best selling handgun in U.S. now. Not best selling handgun of all time.

(P365 has been top of the charts for a couple of years now in terms of annual sales in U.S. )

 

[gunbarrel]

Thank you, Onomea. It's the straight, respectful answer I was looking for. As my Father in Law used to say, you are a scholar and a gentleman

 

[Thaddeus Beauregard]

This simply should not happen... but it does...

 

[Glenn R. McMannly]

I've never owned a striker gun. Are they generally as accurate as the depicted .38/44 S&W?

No.

 

[Onomea]

Long video, Thaddeus, but I watched it.

Not sure what it means, but when I pull the trigger on my P320 the slide does not move rearwards like the one in the video does.

There is similar play between slide and grip module on my P320 as shown in the video.

 

[Thaddeus Beauregard]

Long video, Thaddeus, but I watched it.

Not sure what it means, but when I pull the trigger on my P320 the slide does not move rearwards like the one in the video does.

There is similar play between slide and grip module on my P320 as shown in the video.

It means a few things to me:

1. The P320's striker safety block design isn't reliable enough for prime time. It simply doesn't work as well as the much simpler, more positive Glock style striker safety block used on virtually all other striker fired handguns except the P320.
2. While most samples of the P320 are probably just fine, the design seems to be very intolerant of parts that aren't perfect, and if Sig is outsourcing parts to countries and companies making substandard or slightly out of spec parts, a tolerance stack-up can exist rendering the gun unsafe.
3. Obviously, Sig needs to revisit their acceptable tolerance limits on parts, step up their QC, and hold their parts suppliers to a much higher standard.
4. Though individual samples of the P320 may run flawlessly, nevertheless that doesn't mean there isn't significant unsafe design flaws. The gun started life as a striker fired alteration of the P250 to expedite product release rather than starting from a clean sheet and using proven striker fired mechanical concepts.
5. No gun should ever be as "touchy" as the sample shown in the video! Ever! No excuses for that getting out to the marketplace.
6. It's not hard to envision a gun with the issues shown in that video going off in a holster, getting bumped, etc.
7. Sig steadfastly refuses to take responsibility for their design mistakes. They should have pulled the gun off the market and reintroduced an entirely different gun based on lessons learned than to continue lying and obfuscating the truth. The fact they didn't lead to people getting hurt and killed.