SIG P320 Discharges?

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biku324

biku324

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I seldom paid much attention to SIGs until a contract I was working in Mogadishu 'loaned' a couple of hundred M-11s (P229) to specialized units of the Somali Federal Police Force. The pistols were fine except 2 that were inoperable out of the box and were replaced.

I just noticed today that there is some controversy over the SIG P320 that has agencies divesting themselves of the sidearm - here's one example from a news report:

"Shortly after dark one day in September 2022, police officers Yang Lee and Charles Laskey-Castle arrived on Milwaukee's west side to investigate a car abandoned on the sidewalk. Lee knelt to examine the driver's side floorboard as Laskey-Castle stood behind him. Then Lee rose — and his holstered gun fired a bullet into his partner's leg.

The shooting was captured on body camera footage, and it was at least the third time in three years that a Milwaukee officer's SIG Sauer P320 pistol had allegedly fired without a trigger pull, according to lawsuits and police records. The following month, the Milwaukee Police Department moved to replace its P320s with weapons from another manufacturer."

Have I just been asleep? Anyone have factual info? To be clear, I don't intend to buy one, just curious.
 
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biku324 said:
Uh-oh....guess I was asleep.
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A little bit. Type in 320 discharge into youtube and you will have some idea of the fecal sandwich you've taken a bite of. 😁
Personally, I have only held one once, so i have no dog in this fight, but I have seen enough that I won't be purchasing one to pair with my 365.
 
Owned one, sold it before I heard of this happening. Interestingly enough I haven't heard or seen anything on the internet about the military issued pistols discharging. Then again I live under a rock by today's standards.
 
We've got a pretty good thread right here. Worth looking up.

There are a very few (six?) cases of the M17 and M18s having uncommanded discharges. The most credible one took place on a Marine base in Okinawa with a civilian security guard. Reportedly caught on video, but the video has not been released.

Check out the the thread on this subforum. https://smith-wessonforum.com/threa...-with-the-p320-trigger.740518/#post-142215433
 
I saw some vid on the trigger mechanism of a 320 out of the gun. It looked overly complicated, badly designed & other negatives.

I'm a huge Sig fan, own several of them. Love them all. But I'll never own a 320 after watching that video. Unh-uh.

Lots better options out there, starting with the VP9.
 
Onomea said:
We've got a pretty good thread right here. Worth looking up.

There are a very few (six?) cases of the M17 and M18s having uncommanded discharges. The most credible one took place on a Marine base in Okinawa with a civilian security guard. Reportedly caught on video, but the video has not been released.

Check out the the thread on this subforum. https://smith-wessonforum.com/threa...-with-the-p320-trigger.740518/#post-142215433
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I wonder how much of that is due to the pistols having a manual safety and also if they carry with a round chambered.
 
The P320 uncommanded discharge is extremely well known and increasingly documented phenomena. There's a three year and 200+ page (pages, not posts) on Pistol Forum discussing the incidents and likely technical causes. This has prompted numerous agencies and state training orgs to ban P320s due to the uncommanded discharge risk.

We know there has been more than 200 legal settlements from SIG related to P320. SIG has taken the deliberate approach of settling individually versus a comprehensive recall, such as we have seen S&W done in the recent past (15-22 as an example).

We also know the U.S. Army trials found an unacceptable discharge risk when the M17/18 test articles suffered a rear aspect external blow. While the Army testing found this on a drop test, similar folks reportedly could repeat with a mallet strike. Reportedly SIG made changes in the M17 and has likely implemented numerous modifications iteratively in the commercial P320 production.

My opinion is that there's no question of the P320 uncommanded discharges happening. The challenge is that uncommanded discharges seem to be continuing, across military and various commercial models that have "voluntary upgrades". The one that scared me personally was the Okinawa Marine incident, where a SLS type hood holster had an uncommanded discharges happening. https://npr.brightspotcdn.com/86/f5/d87374f8497a81db30e2463aa80d/marine-corps-2023-02-14.pdf

Also, remember the NJSP removed their US-built P229s from service after SIG couldn't get them to work adequately. Lots of wasted training time and custom leather wasted after a multi year effort. There was also the SIG P250 fiasco at TSA FAMS… People went to prison, a full issue of guns were recalled and the old pistols put back in holsters.
 
My Department which carried Sig for almost 30 years turned back the Sig P320s (non manual safety) after a year of use and switched to M&Ps. This was after a video documented incident in the lobby of the Montville CT Police Station among others. I carried the first generation of Sig P226 after we switched from revolvers and they had two subsequent generations of 226 after that. There was never an issue with Sigs until the 320 came along.
 
Having been a Sig owner I read the Sig forum. I find it interesting that some people will defend the p320 until the bitter end claiming it is impossible for an accidental or unintentional discharge. I think for a normal p320 that is 100% up to spec that may be the case. But from what I have seen and read many p320s may have faulty parts such as the sear and/or the striker safety bar out of spec or defective and can be made to discharge without touching the trigger. There seems to be quite a few examples of this on YouTube videos for example. All I can say is where there is smoke there is usually fire and I have no plans on buying a p320 much less carry one. Why the hell would I want too or anybody else for that matter?!?
 
The only P320 that I own is a P320 X5 Legion that I have used for competition (USPSA and Action Steel) for a couple of years. I've had zero F2Fs, UDs, or other issues. It continues to be a fine pistol and it's one of my favorites. That's not to say that other versions haven't had problems, but I can't imagine that SIG Sauer would not have addressed this issue since winning the pistol military contracts.
 
I had 3 at one time and got rid of all of them even though I liked them very much.

I would not hire someone accused multiple times of rape, even if never convicted, to watch my family. Why? Because there are many many people out there with nothing like this hanging over their heads. If I hire them and they so much as look at someone sideways I will be brought into question as to why I would hire them to begin with.

Likewise, why would I carry something that has so many "accusations" of firing by themselves when there are so many other EXCELLENT choices out there? I don't want to have to use it to defend myself or even for recreation, and then have to PROVE in some way that I really did intend to pull that trigger and not that it was all an accident that was my fault for choosing a gun with such a history? Surely, I was either negligent or deliberately acting against better judgement.

I can't say I did not know about the accusations.

True or not, that scenario could happen. There are many ways this could happen but most of them do not have a simple solution to eliminate.

So…. One way to keep that particular problem from happening with a P320. Don't have one.

Is that not just common sense? Yeah it would be a pity if none of these cases are legit, but whether they are or not, I know about it and there is no proof either way. So, why would any responsible common sense person CHOOSE to take that chance?.

It would be different if it was the only thing avaialble and my ability to remain free with the resources to care for my family are more important to me than SIG's reputation.

Use you head. Make your own decision. Just don't try to convince me I am wrong, because I am not.
 
R_P_K_ said:
All of the military versions have the manual safety, maybe that could make a difference
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What a I have read is many of the accidental discharges were due to something depressing the trigger. Since no manual safety, I would only carry a p320 in a holster that completely covers the trigger and not carry in in a bag or pocket.
 
Kimberpross said:
What a I have read is many of the accidental discharges were due to something depressing the trigger. Since no manual safety, I would only carry a p320 in a holster that completely covers the trigger and not carry in in a bag or pocket.
Click to expand...


There was a ND last week of a gun in its holster. The owner's hand was no where near it, according to the report.

I first thought it was horse manure when these reports came out. But after watching the video of that abomination of a firing pin assembly, I easily believe it.

Still love the hammer-fired models though.
 
It must be a really big rock the OP lives under to have missed this debate over the last couple of years.
 
This "going off by itself" thing is now in play in court in Jefferson County, Colorado. A teenager was shot in the face by a property owner after a trespassing incident. Lots of recent stories about the latest filings out there if one wants to search.
 
biku324 said:
I seldom paid much attention to SIGs until a contract I was working in Mogadishu 'loaned' a couple of hundred M-11s (P229) to specialized units of the Somali Federal Police Force. The pistols were fine except 2 that were inoperable out of the box and were replaced.

I just noticed today that there is some controversy over the SIG P320 that has agencies divesting themselves of the sidearm - here's one example from a news report:

"Shortly after dark one day in September 2022, police officers Yang Lee and Charles Laskey-Castle arrived on Milwaukee's west side to investigate a car abandoned on the sidewalk. Lee knelt to examine the driver's side floorboard as Laskey-Castle stood behind him. Then Lee rose — and his holstered gun fired a bullet into his partner's leg.

The shooting was captured on body camera footage, and it was at least the third time in three years that a Milwaukee officer's SIG Sauer P320 pistol had allegedly fired without a trigger pull, according to lawsuits and police records. The following month, the Milwaukee Police Department moved to replace its P320s with weapons from another manufacturer."

Have I just been asleep? Anyone have factual info? To be clear, I don't intend to buy one, just curious.
Click to expand...
Check the serial number with Sig Sauer - they will fix the issue no charge if your number is one of the ones with the issue.
 
No. They simply replaced the weapons as getting firearms into and out of Somalia takes over a year. We cut the nonfunctional weapons apart to BATFE standards and discarded the pieces at the vendor's direction.
 
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