Sight install gone horribly wrong - Don't let this be you

[Krogen]

This thread exemplifies one of the best aspects of this forum. Most of us can laugh at ourselves and share the experience. Others can learn from these experiences and have a laugh at themselves too. Can't take life to seriously.

This forum is great! Y'all are great! It's a great day!

/gush mode off

 

[R*E]

I dropped some money on a slide pusher and it made the task so easy, esp after watching a lot of YouTube videos to learn from the mistakes of others. Hope to see the finished job after this is done.

 

[Gregbenner]

Good information, thanks! I have, in the past, only installed the dovetails that Burris sells as a means of replacing the rear iron sight with a small rail. I now realize they are undersized since they are held in with a screw thru the base. I didn't realize other dovetails were oversized. I could been "that guy" (lol).

 

[Qball]

Kudos to the owner who wanted to share this mistake

 

[gwpercle]

Bubba Gunsmithing at it's finest .
I wonder if he does his own brake jobs on his car ?
There is a lot you need to know when replacing or installing sights, thanks for posting the correct way ....those of us who read directions and follow instructions appreciate it. Bubba , however , may not get it !

Ordering parts over the internet may seem to be money saving, but there are local shops around here that will install sights and trigger kits for free when you buy the sight or kit from them, in the long run , that's a heck of a deal !
Gary

 

[BMCM]

Ok Gents, let get this show on the road... But first...

BMCM,
What is the pistol you are repairing?

It's a 457

I wonder if he does his own brake jobs on his car ?

Funny you mention that, I recognize that comment wasn't directed at me, but...
I just did that on my 19 year old Dodge diesel. Renewed everything outboard of the hubs/spindles and upgraded the rear using 1995 Chevy 1 ton wheel cylinders. Larger cylinder bore = more braking POWAH

Anyway I digress, back to our scheduled program...

Got the vise all trammed in on the mill and set the slide in there resting on a couple of parallels. The cutter I'm using is a 3/16" four flute M42 cobalt high speed steel stub mill. I could have use something skinnier but i like the stub mill for this as it's very stiff.

Position things to center the tool in the dovetail cut then lower the "Z" such that the tool is 0.005" above the slide.

Spin'er up to about 640 rip'ems and make some chips traversing the "Y".

About halfway there now. That base is pretty soft, cutting through it like butter.

At this point you can see the tool has started dragging the remnants of the base out of the dovetail cut. Phase one of the operation complete.

So as far as the damage assessment....

All considered the slide fared pretty well. I don't see any significant damage. Looking forward a tiny burr upper right.

And looking aft a bit of a raised burr over on the right. I note the bottom of the dovetail cut looks very scratchy though, almost if one was sanding or filing in there That's a NO! NO!

Master Chief says... If one must modify something to make it work always modify the part cheapest to replace. Thus never whittle on the gun to make it fit the sight... Whittle on the sight to make it fit the gun.

A good deal of displaced steel on the old sight base.

As I suspected earlier, that chunk of metal I saw sticking up was indeed peeled of the side of the sight base. Significant galling here too.

That's all for now... I'll be back later with an update on fitting the replacement sights.

Cheers
Bill

 

[0849]

Thank You

Thank You Very Much, Master Chief, for sharing this info. I am not a machinist but have done things like maintenance on my vehicles, replaced rings and bearings, changed motors and trannies a few times in my younger days, but things like you described that a skilled machinist such as yourself can do with metal has always fascinated me.

I like to do stuff on my firearms to the extent I can, sometimes perhaps a little beyond my skills and have on occasion reached out to a skilled machinist to save the day for me, so I very much appreciate what you are doing.

The way I look at it, a few of the critical comments from our perfect members that apparently never make mistakes notwithstanding, if I want to do what I feel like on my firearms, and even push the envelop knowing I can reach out to a skilled machinist/gunsmith, that is my decision, no risk, no glory, as the saying goes.

Anyway, Thanks for sharing. Just curious, do you have any idea what type or grade of steel the sight is made of, as you point out something softer, just curious what it might be.

 

[67tempest]

As the saying goes, S**T happens. At least he stopped and sought professional help before fubarring the slide. Nothing wrong with making a mistake. I don't trust anyone who won't admit it when they do. Learn from it and move on.

 

[SAFireman]

Ok Gents, let get this show on the road... But first...



It's a 457



Funny you mention that, I recognize that comment wasn't directed at me, but...
I just did that on my 19 year old Dodge diesel. Renewed everything outboard of the hubs/spindles and upgraded the rear using 1995 Chevy 1 ton wheel cylinders. Larger cylinder bore = more braking POWAH

Anyway I digress, back to our scheduled program...

Got the vise all trammed in on the mill and set the slide in there resting on a couple of parallels. The cutter I'm using is a 3/16" four flute M42 cobalt high speed steel stub mill. I could have use something skinnier but i like the stub mill for this as it's very stiff.

Position things to center the tool in the dovetail cut then lower the "Z" such that the tool is 0.005" above the slide.

Spin'er up to about 640 rip'ems and make some chips traversing the "Y".

About halfway there now. That base is pretty soft, cutting through it like butter.

At this point you can see the tool has started dragging the remnants of the base out of the dovetail cut. Phase one of the operation complete.

So as far as the damage assessment....

All considered the slide fared pretty well. I don't see any significant damage. Looking forward a tiny burr upper right.

And looking aft a bit of a raised burr over on the right. I note the bottom of the dovetail cut looks very scratchy though, almost if one was sanding or filing in there That's a NO! NO!

Master Chief says... If one must modify something to make it work always modify the part cheapest to replace. Thus never whittle on the gun to make it fit the sight... Whittle on the sight to make it fit the gun.

A good deal of displaced steel on the old sight base.

As I suspected earlier, that chunk of metal I saw sticking up was indeed peeled of the side of the sight base. Significant galling here too.

That's all for now... I'll be back later with an update on fitting the replacement sights.

Cheers
Bill

Bill,

Seeing your posts makes me want to go out and wire up that Bridgeport that I have waiting for me

 

[GaryS]

I seem to remember that some of the "Value Line" guns use different sights than the regular 3rd Gens. Different as in the dovetails are not the same. Is that part of the issue with the damage to this 457?

 

[jessebogan]

Funny thing, I was having a conversation with someone just yesterday regarding "failure". If you never try anything, you will never fail, but you also will not succeed at anything either. The key is to learn why you failed, and not do it that way the next time. Thanks to this thread, I have learned some things, and I didn't even personally have to live through the failure. It is one of the many reasons I check back on this forum a couple times a day...

 

[Comrad]

Redneck engineering, measure with a yard stick, mark with a crayon and cut with a torch.

 

[BMCM]

If at first you don't succeed...Get a BIGGER Hammer!

 

[GaryS]

"I don't know what's wrong. I cut it twice and it's still too short."

Redneck engineering, measure with a yard stick, mark with a crayon and cut with a torch.

 

[okiegtrider]

Great post and a cautionary tale for a lot of us.

 

[HCH]

Sad sight to see (no pun intended). I guess the previous owner should have come to the Smith & Wesson Forum before he tried to replace them.

 

[epj]

Redneck engineering, measure with a yard stick, mark with a crayon and cut with a torch.

I don't do no such thing! I measure with a tape measure, Mark with a Sharpie and cut with a dull hacksaw. However, I consider myself a full fledged redneck engineer.

 

[okiegtrider]

All sights MUST be fit to the sight slot before installation.
Installing Dovetail Front Sights with Dave Dawson - Bing video

Excellent video! Glad you posted that one.

 

[03Fatboy]

Right after high school I worked construction. The old timers told me to go the tool shed and get the board stretcher to fix a mistake on some 2x4's I was cutting. After about 10 minutes I turned to them ask what it looked like and they were all laughing. Jokes on me. I worked with these guys for years and through school. They taught me a bunch because I was willing to learn. I made mistakes!

Many years later and I'm still willing to learn and still make mistakes. Kudos to the owner of the front and center 457, and having Bill here to help us out when we goof!

 

[BMCM]

Just curious, do you have any idea what type or grade of steel the sight is made of, as you point out something softer, just curious what it might be.

Got me curious too so I made a call... The fine folks at XS tell me it's 1144 Stress Proof.

Seeing your posts makes me want to go out and wire up that Bridgeport that I have waiting for me

You've got a Bridgeport and it's not even plugged in??? No Fair, I want one

I seem to remember that some of the "Value Line" guns use different sights than the regular 3rd Gens. Different as in the dovetails are not the same. Is that part of the issue with the damage to this 457?

You're memory checksum passes. The 457 has that horrendously huge plastic front. Here's the broken base next to the replacement sight and a 4566 take off factory sight to illustrate the difference.

However, I don't see that being the issue. It's simply put failure to properly hand fit the sight to the gun.

As for hand fitting the replacement front...

What we have is is a Nicholson 0cut swiss pillar file and under my paw a Grobet 2cut pillar.

I'll start filing the bottom of the base on the coarser 0cut first. 10 strokes then flip the part 180° another 10 strokes then test for fit. The reason you flip the part 180° is to prevent cutting the base into a bevel from uneven hand pressure.

Files only cut in one direction, do NOT scrub a part back 'n' forth on the file, doing so will dull the file right quick.

You need to lift the part off the file and move back to the top for each stroke.

After about 30 minutes of that file, test, file, test, and so forth we get to the point where the base will just barely start in the cut.

Now we throttle back on the filing a bunch. I cut the file strokes in half to 5x5 for a bit then down to 3x3 until we got to this point where the sight will go in about 1/3rd the way.

I noted here the sight blade has a very slight overhang which was impinging on the slide top so I had to do a little bit of fitting under the over hang with a 2cut dovetail file here.

And here.

Test fit looks good.

There's the pile of filings taken off the front sight base. .45 round in frame for scale.

Now we clean up and degrease the slide & sight with some acetone in preparation for final install with some Loctite 290 wicking threadlocker.

I apply the Loctite 290 to on side of the sight basae at the bottom and allow the fluid to wick through the entire dovetail cut.

Gonna leave that alone for a while and permit the threadlocker to cure. I'll probably get after fitting the backsight later tonight or tomorrow.

That's all for now

Cheers
Bill