Sight installation tricks

[Jhp147]

I wanted to start a new thread as this is not exactly about the sight pusher, but about installation/removal in general. I'm looking for any/all ideas on fixed sight removal and installation. I watch the boards and have done a couple, but it is invariably the most frustrating part of dealing with the guns. I have gotten frustrated enough to send one or two off, both S&W autos, and have beat the heck out of one or two of my own. So far, this is what I have:
Pad slide and sight with tape. I've used masking tape and duct tape, seemed to help. A little. I have a cold blue pen too, though. Note that M&Ps have stainless slides, be careful.
Good padded vise: I've used leather and tape, neither is great. I'll probably order the hard-rubber padded set from Brownells next but I'm going to try sheets of .090 or .060 Kydex heated and bent to shape so they'll stay in place.
Pre-soak with Kroil, Liquid Wrench, WD-40. Tried LW on one sight, but the way this one is in is not a fair test. I'm skeptical on these, but they can't hurt.
Brass punches filed to lay flat on the dovetail. Seem to help things but don't match the angle of certain sights, still bends on Smith sights. Got an aluminum one made from an old shotgun cleaning rod, don't think it will be much better.
Bronze punch. Never seen one.
German silver punch. I had one of these included with a Dawson FO I put on a 1911. Emphasis on had, got to find another one. Dawson's was pre-shaped to use on the sight I ordered. Have no idea if they beat brass.
I'm going to measure the size of sights compared to any I get off and try to match the size (by the usual taking off of metal on the bottom) and see if that lets me match it faster and maybe speeds fitting the new sight. I have polished the underside of a sight to a mirror polish to get it in when it was close. Also made a very slight bevel on the lead in side of the sight's dovetail. No, it never came out.
Some say to heat the slide. Some say to freeze the slide, both I guess with the idea that the slide and sight are of different material so there will be a dimensional change that will allow movement more easily. Haven't tried that.
Talked to a guy a factory armorer/instructor that has some sort of rig made from an arbor press, but he said he only uses it knowing he can get the slide refinished easily. I don't know what kind of jig he has made to fit the slide or sight.
I'm pretty sure the $500 Hesco sight pusher in the Brownell's catalog is out of range for most folks, and I have not heard glowing reports on the PI500 on the tough guns.
Pretty much all boils down to big hammer, big vise, bent punches, and cold blue or any variation thereof, with an MGW/Smith sight pusher offering some very limited help.
If anyone else got any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

 

[Aussie44]

It depends on the dovetail and which side the sight was istalled from.I cut the dovetails from right to left(Looking from back of gun)and it is tighter on the left side because I fit from the right side.They only come out easy from left to right.Try it the other way and your stuck with a damaged sight and dovetail.Hope this helps.


Ken

 

[Jhp147]

Aussie, as far as I know all the Smith guns are cut to come OUT toward the ejection port, I check with maker on any gun I'm not sure of.

 

[500 Magnum Nut]

You need a big heavy vise with bronze jaw covers. I also have used hard plastic shims to protect slides. The insides of the slide need to be protected from being squished, so add metal packing inside the slide. Tighten the vise firmly so the slide won't move. Soft cushiony protection is counter productive as it absorbs the blows.

After the slide is firmly in the vise I use a brass punch and steel hammer, striking left to right. After a few firm blows, the sight will be off the gun. If loctite is involved, I use a butane torch and heat the sight, then while hot go back to the hammer and punch.

A short brass bar is my homemade punch. I turn down the end of the punch so it fits the dovetail better.


When installing the new sight, I often use #609 loctite so it aids in sliding it home, then the sight will have even more difficulty to vibrate loose after the loctite activates. Remove sight material from the bottom of the sight, not the sides. If the sight fits loose, I peen the sight edge, never peen the slide, only the sight. After it's installed it won't show and looks professional.

Try and use a sight pusher for tritium night sights as the glass vials could break under hammer blows. Clean up any brass marks with hoppes and oil.

 

[Spotteddog]

Oh yeah!
And if you rupture one of the Tritium vials don't worry. That green glow you now have will go away in about 13 years.

 

[shawn mccarver]

I wanted to start a new thread as this is not exactly about the sight pusher, but about installation/removal in general. I'm looking for any/all ideas on fixed sight removal and installation. I watch the boards and have done a couple, but it is invariably the most frustrating part of dealing with the guns. I have gotten frustrated enough to send one or two off, both S&W autos, and have beat the heck out of one or two of my own. So far, this is what I have:
Pad slide and sight with tape. I've used masking tape and duct tape, seemed to help. A little. I have a cold blue pen too, though. Note that M&Ps have stainless slides, be careful.
Good padded vise: I've used leather and tape, neither is great. I'll probably order the hard-rubber padded set from Brownells next but I'm going to try sheets of .090 or .060 Kydex heated and bent to shape so they'll stay in place.
Pre-soak with Kroil, Liquid Wrench, WD-40. Tried LW on one sight, but the way this one is in is not a fair test. I'm skeptical on these, but they can't hurt.
Brass punches filed to lay flat on the dovetail. Seem to help things but don't match the angle of certain sights, still bends on Smith sights. Got an aluminum one made from an old shotgun cleaning rod, don't think it will be much better.
Bronze punch. Never seen one.
German silver punch. I had one of these included with a Dawson FO I put on a 1911. Emphasis on had, got to find another one. Dawson's was pre-shaped to use on the sight I ordered. Have no idea if they beat brass.
I'm going to measure the size of sights compared to any I get off and try to match the size (by the usual taking off of metal on the bottom) and see if that lets me match it faster and maybe speeds fitting the new sight. I have polished the underside of a sight to a mirror polish to get it in when it was close. Also made a very slight bevel on the lead in side of the sight's dovetail. No, it never came out.
Some say to heat the slide. Some say to freeze the slide, both I guess with the idea that the slide and sight are of different material so there will be a dimensional change that will allow movement more easily. Haven't tried that.
Talked to a guy a factory armorer/instructor that has some sort of rig made from an arbor press, but he said he only uses it knowing he can get the slide refinished easily. I don't know what kind of jig he has made to fit the slide or sight.
I'm pretty sure the $500 Hesco sight pusher in the Brownell's catalog is out of range for most folks, and I have not heard glowing reports on the PI500 on the tough guns.
Pretty much all boils down to big hammer, big vise, bent punches, and cold blue or any variation thereof, with an MGW/Smith sight pusher offering some very limited help.
If anyone else got any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

Here is a really neat S&W auto sight installation trick. It works every time. Even an idiot will not screw up the slide, the dovetail or the sight.

SEND IT BACK TO S&W.

 

[Jhp147]

send it back to S&W

Send it back? That's for CHICKENS! (and people that need it done by this Friday). That trick is mentioned already, in line #3-4. Actually, I have already told people that if it looks like I can't do it without damage, that is the only option and they can't have that by Friday and they should have panicked a few more weeks before night quals.

 

[inboost]

Oh man, my jaw aches (from clenching my teeth while I wail away) even thinking about it. I can totally sympathize. I use a set of rubber faced jaws I got from Brownells that are aluminum with tough rubber liners. They work pretty good for me without having to apply any additional finish protection to the slide which always stays put. Like yourself I use a steel hammer and a brass drift cut to improve force transfer and reduce bounce by flattening a side and truing it. I have often put blue painters masking tape on the end of the punch in a few layers to try and reduce the brass transfer to the sight, but often this makes the end of the puch too slippery. I have some oxpho blue creme that I use to try and darken up anything that goes bright on me during the beating.

 

[OMCHamlin]

I use a heavy vise, solidly mounted on a stout wooden bench, with thin wood slabs to protect the slide's finish. I place the slide's dovetail low in the vise and centered with the vice's lead screw so that that is all as solid as possible. I think that is key to breaking a sight loose, solid set up. Further, I start with a big heavy ballpeen and a well dressed brass punch, low at the base of the dovetail. I think most times, you only get those first shots to start a sight moving, and if you puss around, you rapidly start to make things worse (peening, slipping, gouging, etc...). My 2 cents.

 

[Jhp147]

Larry at Smith quoted me 4 weeks and "about 60 bucks" (that is one hour) plus shipping on installing sights on a duty gun today. I don't think Smith has ever kept any duty gun I've sent even one week, much less four.
BUT, Liquid Wrench, blue tape, the custom made to fit .060 clip on vise pads and a carefully shaped brass punch had factory Novaks off and a new set of Trijicons on darn quick tonight. OMCHamlin, I made double sure I hit low center, hard, with a carefully shaped punch. I think your "big whack first" is right. I may go back go back and take on that old first gen 5904 again.
Any others?