"Sighting In" Distance for CC Self Defense

[66 shooter]

I'm with Old Cop

 

[Mister X]

Shooting in civilian self-defense is reactive and close quarters and you most likely will not/shouldn't use the sights. You will/should focus on the threat. In many cases you'll likely be moving(getting off the X) and shooting one handed, so train accordingly. Scenarios beyond 7 yards/21 feet are extremely rare. Even in situations like in an active shooter situation, you would want to be moving/running or moving and shooting. Your not going to want to stand still and take a stance using sighted fire like at the range and exchange gun fire. And remember, your a civilian acting reactively/defensively with a pistol not a SpecOps military guy or SWAT counter-sniper acting proactive/offensively.

Civilian gun fight stats...

https://tacticalprofessor.files.wordpress.com/2014/12/tac-5-year-w-tables.pdf

http://americanhandgunner.com/when-citizens-fight-back/

Using sights in a gunfight...

http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Sa...uld-you-really-use-your-sights-in-a-gunfight/

http://wilsondefense.blogspot.com/2014/09/sights-what-and-why-gabe-suarez-and-rob.html

 

[Hang-Fire Hank]

"Sighting in" implies to me that you're making adjustments to the sights to control the point of aim and point of impact. If you have fixed sights, chances are all you're doing is checking point of impact vs point of aim - where does the bullet impact in relation to where you were aiming. Of course, bullet weight and velocity will affect POI. Check your gun at a few different distances, say 5, 10, 15, 25yds with different ammo so you know where your gun hits with a particular load.


Hang-Fire Hank-
If you're honestly teaching people that all they need to practice is shooting from the hip at 3yds because of gunfight averages from some article you're doing them a disservice. Yeah, the average gun fight is 3-5 shots at 3-5 yards in 3-5 seconds, but that doesn't mean that you ignore basic marksmanship skills like aimed fire. And an average is just that, it means that - an average of extremes - what happens when your student needs to use their sights to take an aimed shot at 15 or 20yds? Teach them to hit at distance and hitting up close is that much easier.

Oh, heck no. I begin with the six principles of marksmanship (e.g. front sight concentration, etc.) & have them do that at the range. Only after the basics (& only if I feel they'll be safe), do I have them try point shooting.
Hank

 

[WC145]

Oh, heck no. I begin with the six principles of marksmanship (e.g. front sight concentration, etc.) & have them do that at the range. Only after the basics (& only if I feel they'll be safe), do I have them try point shooting.
Hank

I appreciate you clarifying that.

 

[Rastoff]

I don't understand "sighting in" a hand gun.. I sight in rifles (with optics) but not hand guns. The closest I have gotten is having the sights drifted because the POI and POA was not the same.

This is the very definition of sighting a gun in; making POI the same as POA.

It's interesting how these threads drift.

 

[ATF]

I don't understand "sighting in" a hand gun.. I sight in rifles (with optics) but not hand guns. The closest I have gotten is having the sights drifted because the POI and POA was not the same. But that is not done a lot and it is mostly done to personalize the gun to the shooter. An example is the fact that I am right hand dominate and left eye dominate. So sometimes the factory set up sights need tweaking for me. I have had to have the sights drifted on 1 1911 and 2 M&P's. (we own multiple of each)

You cannot "sight in" a handgun unless it has adjustable sights but you need to know what sight position to take, i.e. 6 o'clock, dead center, above/below dead center etc. Of course shooting targets higher or lower than your handgun require different adjustment. I am left eye dominant the same as you but learned to use my right eye. It can be done with practice provided your right eye isn't really weak. I can't shoot with both eyes open though

 

[Biggfoot44]

2 Hawk had it in his first post. Sight at 25yds , and you will be good at all closer distances, with the reverse not necesarily the reverse being true.

Ok , *25* isn't magic , 20yd or 30yd still the same basic principle. If your facility only offers 15yd or 50' still reasonably close.

"Average distance" isn't the same as the longest distance it is wise to be prepared for.

 

[TNDave]

If your gun hits to point of aim at 7 yards it will be on at 25 yards. You might have to adjust it a click or two at 25 but maybe not.

 

[Louchia]

The Thread started with discussion of SD training. I for one, as most every one else practice at distances out to 25 yrds. I feel it's a must to be able to handle your fire arm at that distance and be proficient in the use of it.
However , I think it is also important to be able to point and shoot and hit what you want at close range,0- 5 yrds.
Self defence will probably be at close range.

 

[Bob O]

I always "group" a pistol at 3 yds, then 7 and 10 yds. 15 yds is the furthest out I shoot, only occasionally.

I like to shoot rapid fire, traverse fire, double taps and head shots, etc. Bullseye shooting with a self defense pistol at long ranges I have no use for.

Sent via phone

 

[Biggfoot44]

Actually the OP started out asking specifically about sighting in distance. It did quickly move sideways into self defense training and philosophies.

A pistol that is sighted for " a long pistol shot " aka 25yd or somthing similar can be fired unsighted at bad breath distance w/o issue , reverse not automatically so.

[ I have nothing against developing skills from contact to tobacco spitting distances , and it is probably a good idea. But as another arrow in the quiver , not as an only skill. ]

 

[old&slow]

Just for the heck of it,, I checked the bullet drop on a ballistic program. A 9mm 124 JHP @ 1100 fps sighted in at 5 yds. , the drop in inches at 10 yard intervals:
10 yds. + .1
20 yds. 0
30 yds. -.1
40 yds. -.6
50 yds. -1.4
60 yds. - 2.5
70 yds -4.0
80 yds. -5.8
90 yds. -8.0
100yds. -10.5

Surprised me, a heck of a lot less difference than I figured.
Personally I think I'll still use 25 yds. as my standard. Not because of bullet drop, but because
of shooter error.

 

[one eye joe]

So I think 2hawk answered the question. Sight in at 25 yards because the POI at 5 to 7 yards will still be accurate?

MOST CC HANDGUNS DO NOT HAVE ADJUSTABLE SIGHTS. EVEN IF THEY DO, THEY ARE SMALL COMPACT HANDGUNS THAT YOU WOULD NOT ROUTINELY BE FIRING AT 25 YARDS. ITS MUCH EASIER TO ZERO AN ADJUSTABLE SIGHT HANDGUN IN AT 7 YARDS THAN IT IS AT 25 YARDS. YOU WILL BE HARD PRESSED TO CONVINCE A JURY THAT YOU WERE "IN FEAR OF YOUR LIFE", FROM A THREAT THAT IS 25 YARDS AWAY, UNLESS YOU WERE BEING FIRED UPON---AN UNLIKELY SCENARIO…..

A GOOD RULE OF THUMB IS 7 YARDS. PRACTICE DRAWING YOUR WEAPON FROM ITS CONCEALED POSITION, AND EMPTYING THE FIREARM INTO A TORSO TARGET, CENTER MASS, HEAD SHOTS, ETC AT THAT DISTANCE. IF YOU HAVE THE APPROPRIATE AREA, TRY FIRING ON THE MOVE SIDE TO SIDE, BACKING AWAY, ETC, WHICH YOU MAY NEED TO DO IF YOU ARE UNDER ATTACK, AND SEEKING COVER TO RELOAD, ETC…...

 

[badge]

Old Cop is a learned man. Pray you never have to but if forced, it will be very fast, and you must be prepared to fire until your threat is no longer. Train for the worst and hope for the best. Be aware of your what is around you and I would'nt worry too much about how the weapon is sighted. It will be very personal and close.

 

[Waywatcher]

I sight in at 7 yards, but the only time I need to actually sight in is with a laser. I shoot out to 25 yards to make sure the group is centered on my point of aim with a load. With fixed sights I change loads to change point of impact.

Luckily (probably by design, really) my S&W 442's POA=POI at 25 yards with 135+P Gold Dots.

Here's a test target from last summer--7 yards, 10 rounds, DAO, standing:

 

[Shorty 45 MK2]

To help keep the waters getting muddied...It depends part on where you spend more of your time/your environment. Like I live in the sticks and will be more likely to have to shoot a four legged predator (and have) than a person and at greater distance than your average SD shooting.

Old&slow, thanks for that info! That's very interesting.

 

[Old cop]

I agree that moving while shooting is a good idea if your range allows it. My problem is I can't move much. I walk w/a cane so I can't train any way but standing my ground and shooting. That is how I trained today at the range (just finished cleaning my gun).

 

[66 shooter]

Old Cop is a learned man. Pray you never have to but if forced, it will be very fast, and you must be prepared to fire until your threat is no longer. Train for the worst and hope for the best. Be aware of your what is around you and I would'nt worry too much about how the weapon is sighted. It will be very personal and close.

What he said...