Sigma Failed Yesterday

[blastfact]

Yep it's broken. On or about the 500 round mark for the day. Yesterday at the range the extractor broke. It has clearly failed with about half of the leading edge of the extractor gone. I found the missing part lodged in the top of my third finger, middle knuckle. So it broke and bit me. How the shard got down there I will never know. It is a very very small bite. Could have been bad if it had got into a eye.

Anyway,,, I have emailed S&W and asked them to drop a extractor in the mail for me. If they compile GREAT!!! If they ask for me to ship the pistol in. I will politely refuse and purchase a part from them or NUMRICH. Shipping the pistol in to them for this little problem is damn near stupid.

We had a GREAT day at the range yesterday. Well not really a range. Was the Arkoma bottoms on the Arkansas River right on the Ok. and Ar. boarder. It is highly disputed land between Ok. and Ar. Kind of joyfully lawless if you will. A great little spot in America if you ask me.

There were three of us. All good friends going back forty years or better. Not the first time we had shot together. To other shooters, by standards and others enjoying the area it must have looked like all hell had broke loose. There had to be 20 firearms there between the three of us. Rifles, pistols, shotguns and tactical weapons all represented very well. We had settled in on shooting concrete blocks at 65 yards with the pistols. The old CZ-52's were clearly the king's of the day at this range with surplus or retail ammo. They would break up the blocks like the rifles did. The two 9mm's we had with us had a bit more trouble with the blocks. The Sigma and SR9 faced off! The Sigma was the clear favorite until it broke. All three shooters could pretty much tag the blocks at will with it. The SR9 was clearly harder for all of us to get on target with,,, and stay on target. The 9mm's would not break the blocks up no matter what ammo we used. And we used ALOT of retail and reloaded ammo. We all spent a small fortune yesterday.

The Sigma impressed all that shot it yesterday,,, until it failed. No other weapon failed. Not even the old C&R stuff.

So ended a great day with a busted Sigma! divided by equals ,,, LOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[OKFC05]

S&W will fix it for free and pay shipping both ways.
They will also inspect it for other possible problems.

The last two guns that broke at the range were a Kimber and a $3000 custom open gun. So what?

If you've never had a gun break, you haven't shot enough yet.

 

[mlk18]

It happens. That's why places like Numrich exists! I for one like to keep a small armors kit for the guns I shoot most often, so I can quickly replace a part and get back to the fun. Glad you had fun shooting it until the issue arouse, I am sure S&W will take care of you one way or the other.

 

[blastfact]

I contacted S&W today. They wanted me to ship the Sigma in so they could replace the extractor. Paul was a real nice guy. Bottom line,,, they were not going to drop a part in the mail for me. Thats ok with me. I thanked him for the time and lawyer speak. He just kind of chuckled. I called NUMRICH and got one coming. Should be here this week.

I am not mad at the pistol or S&W. I have responsibility in this also as the owner. I have beat the snot out of the Sigma.

Also to a poster in this thread. I have had my share of failures. No. 1 is extractors in auto pistols and rifles. I just did not expect it to fail this quick. And especially when it was whipping up on a SR9 in three shooters hands. The SR9's owner was ready to by it until it broke.

So it will be back together end of this week or the first of next week. If the new part goes in well and works well I will purchase another and throw it into the range bag.

Looks like I will have to take the CZ-52 to Little Rock this week for my PP weapon. Darn the luck.

 

[writerinmo]

I wonder... if I was going to buy a few parts for the Sigma to have on hand just in case, which parts should I buy? Are there some more prone to failure than others? I really dislike sending a gun in if it's something simple that I can fix myself if I had the part. Obviously a couple ejectors might be good to have on hand, any other particular parts?

 

[44Hunter]

Thanks for sharing this. I have had an extractor break and slide stop crack in two on other guns. All within a few hundred rounds. Yours is the first post I have read with a Sigma breakage. So it goes with semi autos. Many times I have grabbed my Model 66 for the truck and thought "six for sure".

 

[blastfact]

Got the part in from NUMRICH today and promptly installed. I put 100 rounds of Berrys 124 reloads, 100 rounds of XTP reloads, 50 rounds WWB 147 JHP. 250 rounds total with no problems.

Install was easy. Held the extractor in place in the slide. Used a retail hot round and a empty pcs. of brass. Slipped them in all looked good. Checks for solid fit and pivot and other play. Reassembled the slide and checked again. Installed barrel, them mated the slide up and checked action. Used a pcs. of brass empty and ready for reload. Locked slide back and then released it. Slowly pulled slide back whit a clean eject. Did it again with a fast slide pull, with a clean eject. Once more with a very fast snap. Worked great! Then went through the same drill with a live round. All good,,, Off to the range. The rest is history as they say.

Here are a few pics of the old and new extractor.

 

[ddd]

S&W will fix it for free and pay shipping both ways.
They will also inspect it for other possible problems.

The last two guns that broke at the range were a Kimber and a $3000 custom open gun. So what?

If you've never had a gun break, you haven't shot enough yet.

I have a broken Sigma. The owner's manual tells me S&W will only repair it under warranty during the first year for the original owner, or possibly, for certain defects, beyond the first year, but also only if the owner can prove to be the original owner. It seems my striker assembly is malfunctioning after only 300 rounds (and 6 years).

 

[Backon4]

Call them they will fix it. I am sending in my 98 sigma in a couple of days when I get my shipping label. What the manual says and what they do are 2 different things. My manual says the same thing but S&W now has a life time warranty on everything they make. The number one reason my other pistol is a Smith also (M&P 40c).

 

[mlk18]

The owner's manual is wrong. It has a lifetime warranty. Another member confirmed that fact just the other day.

 

[Tslepebull]

Blastfact, which Sigma model is yours, F, V, VE, etc.? The replacement extractor looks a bit different than the origional (beyond the fact that it is not broken) and your replacement looks more like the ones in my 9VE and 40VE (both less than two years old). I wonder if they recently redesigned that part for greater reliability/durability?

 

[jag312]

Is the extractor an MIM part? It could be that MIM technology is okay for making some parts , but not all parts. Maybe sometime in the future someone will make aftermarket extractors the right way for the Sigma instead of the quick, easy, and cheap way.

 

[marvin the martian]

Had the same problem with my sigma, S&W paid for shipping both ways. They got it back to me in just over a week.

 

[blastfact]

Blastfact, which Sigma model is yours, F, V, VE, etc.? The replacement extractor looks a bit different than the origional (beyond the fact that it is not broken) and your replacement looks more like the ones in my 9VE and 40VE (both less than two years old). I wonder if they recently redesigned that part for greater reliability/durability?

It is a 9VE purchased 10/09. Hopefully the last of the crunchy trigger Sigmas.

The extractor is different. In minor ways,, but different than the one it shipped with.

Here is a picture of the new extractor installed and 250 rounds shot yesterday.

The OEM part had more of a point at the bottom instead of rounded. Also the angle of the bevel is different on the face of the new part from NUMRICH. The line at which the bevel took place on the old part was almost inline with the edge of the slide. In other words much steeper. Also the OEM part also engaged the brass closer to the bottom of the extractor. Thus more than likely why so much of the point/lower part of the extractor is missing on the OEM part and ended up inbedded in a knuckle. Of note also is the very slight radius in the area where the extractor lands in the groove of the brass.

Both S&W and NUMRICH description of the part describe it as the " Improved Open Extractor " (paraphrased). Improved from the OEM extractor my pistol came with or dating back farther, I do not know and could not get a answer to from S&W or NUMRICH. NUMRICH did state the part is S&W OEM and purchased from S&W. If this one breaks relatively quick like the first I may send the pistol back in on there dime for evaluation and repair. Will just have to see how it does.

During the tear down and major cleaning. Yes it was completely striped down including the primary trigger assemble. I noticed chatter marks on the feed ramp. The feed ramp was polished completely smooth after 100 rounds shot through the pistol. And it stayed in that condition until the day the extractor failed. Some of these marks I may not beable to polish out now. During the 250 rounds shot yesterday there were no problems at all. So it did not effect the pistol any.

To the tip of the finger it still feels smooth. But the eye and camera can see it. I took a piece of 2000 grit wet/dry paper to it real quick today. But there still there.

Have Fun

 

[blastfact]

Is the extractor an MIM part? It could be that MIM technology is okay for making some parts , but not all parts. Maybe sometime in the future someone will make aftermarket extractors the right way for the Sigma instead of the quick, easy, and cheap way.

Yes it is a MIM part. Under magnification you can see a very fine mottled grainy look. Much like a broken or sheared piece of cast iron. But the presentation is much much finer. And thats ok at the price point at which a Sigma sells at. Not OK at all on a $700 or $800 plus revolver IMHO.

 

[n4zov]

So apparently S&W will sell the part to Numrich but not to individuals? Does that mean that a dealer or gunsmith can order these and other restricted parts from S&W but not the gun owner? I am just trying to understand S&W's thinking on to whom and under what circumstances they sell parts. Anybody know for sure?

 

[blastfact]

So apparently S&W will sell the part to Numrich but not to individuals? Does that mean that a dealer or gunsmith can order these and other restricted parts from S&W but not the gun owner? I am just trying to understand S&W's thinking on to whom and under what circumstances they sell parts. Anybody know for sure?

I never asked S&W if they would sell me the part. Only if they would drop one in the mail for me. The answer was no. The pistol needed to come home. Reason,, it's a fitted part. I then laughed and got a chuckle from Paul ( a nice man ) the support person. He knew it was BS/Lawyer/Marketing speak.

n4zov I have given up on trying to figure out corporate America or any other such structure in the world. The more so called efficient they get the worse they get. The worse quality gets. The higher prices get. I work with the largest pump manufacture in the world. It's college boy top heavy, engineering has went south like snow melt in hell. Quality just in the 10 years I've been with them is horrible in my opinion. Not near enough skilled labor. A straight answer to a question much less why they are functioning idiots is as illusive as hens teeth.

One needs to look no farther than GM or Mopar to be completely confused concerning large corporation's In America or else where. We build a lot of freaking junk now days.......

Look at S&W, MIM, pieced together barrels, Locks, Lifetime warrenty's. The list goes on. You can bet the college boys, bean counters and lawyers pat each other on the back and suck up the savings in part with bonus's they give each other. And if the marketing dept. does there job there will be a good check for them also. The whole time the engineering staff, production staff and support staff are basically told theres thousands of folks out there that want your job bad and at less money if you don't play a long.

 

[Tslepebull]

It is a 9VE purchased 10/09. Hopefully the last of the crunchy trigger Sigmas.

The extractor is different. In minor ways,, but different than the one it shipped with.

Well my theory about the new extractor didn't hold water and apparently the problem was in my recall. I just pulled my SW40VE (purchased new in 12/2009 apart and carefully examined the extractor under magnification. It does have the same extractor as your broken one; apparently the "improved" extractor has not made it through the supply pipeline yet. However, my feed ramp does not have the chatter marks that yours has and that poses and interesting question. Were you shooting steel case ammo when the extractor failed? Could the sharp case mouth from a steel case have gouged your feed ramp?

 

[blastfact]

Well my theory about the new extractor didn't hold water and apparently the problem was in my recall. I just pulled my SW40VE (purchased new in 12/2009 apart and carefully examined the extractor under magnification. It does have the same extractor as your broken one; apparently the "improved" extractor has not made it through the supply pipeline yet. However, my feed ramp does not have the chatter marks that yours has and that poses and interesting question. Were you shooting steel case ammo when the extractor failed? Could the sharp case mouth from a steel case have gouged your feed ramp?

All Brass,,,, retail and reloads. It's never chambered a steel case.

Who knows about the extractor or if anybody is telling the truth or when the so called improved extractor came about. But the new one is different than the OEM unit.

S&W parts. http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/other/PistolPartsList_Retail.pdf Which is it? Current parts list as of 10/9/09. I bought my pistol on 10/10/09. (just checked paper work). The fired brass is dated 6-29-09. So the pistol had to of been made somewhere around June of 09. So when was the first extractor made obsolete?

What I purchased. http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Products.aspx?catid=10153

And so it goes.

 

[Fchewy]

Does the 40VE and the 9VE use the same extractor?