Does anyone have experience shooting both the Sigma and the SD versions? I have a Sigma in .40 S&W that I have never fired. I am thinking about buying an Apex trigger, even though I admit I do not know if the factory trigger needs to be replaced. It is a zombie apocalypse gun that will only be shot at the range pending the coming 2nd civil war. But I am willing to upgrade to either an Apex fix or an SDVE in .40 caliber. Your thoughts on your experience is appreciated.
Sigma vs. SDVE
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Echo40
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If you've never shot it, then how do you know that it needs an Apex Trigger, much less a whole new replacement model with a better trigger? At least go out and shoot it a bit before you decide to drop additional funds on an improved trigger.
Frankly, as someone who started out with heavy double action triggers, I fail to see what is so horrendous about the Sigma's trigger. Yes, it's long, it's heavy, and it has a long reset, but so does a DA Revolver or DAO Pistol, so to me it just seems like a "problem" which is exclusive to those who are accustomed to light, short triggers.
I strongly recommend that you actually try shooting your Sigma before you decide to try to improve the trigger or replace it outright, and please, give it a chance, don't immediately give up on it and assume that it prints low left without trying to get accustomed to the trigger first. I know ammo is expensive right now, but then again, so are guns, including the SD which is just as inflated in cost as everything else. So at least spend a 50 round box of target ammo on it before you decide the trigger is too bad to live with.
Frankly, as someone who started out with heavy double action triggers, I fail to see what is so horrendous about the Sigma's trigger. Yes, it's long, it's heavy, and it has a long reset, but so does a DA Revolver or DAO Pistol, so to me it just seems like a "problem" which is exclusive to those who are accustomed to light, short triggers.
I strongly recommend that you actually try shooting your Sigma before you decide to try to improve the trigger or replace it outright, and please, give it a chance, don't immediately give up on it and assume that it prints low left without trying to get accustomed to the trigger first. I know ammo is expensive right now, but then again, so are guns, including the SD which is just as inflated in cost as everything else. So at least spend a 50 round box of target ammo on it before you decide the trigger is too bad to live with.
OP
I do plan to shoot the Sigma and have about 100 rounds of hardball purchased before the pandemic. But I am interested in hearing from Sigma owners who bought later versions. I would like to read their opinion of the newer triggers. I agree with the thrust of your post. Thank you for posting.
Echo40
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The SD9/40VE is literally just a 4th generation Sigma SW9/40VE with M&P-esq aesthetic tweaks and a trigger that's 2lbs-4lbs lighter than the previous generation, so there's really nothing too enlightening to say about it, just the obvious fact that the trigger is now lighter. The pull and reset are the same, it's just lighter/smoother, and how much lighter differs from model to model since the 3rd Gen trigger pull weight isn't 100% consistent, improves with time, S&W did free trigger jobs on them for a time, and there are a number of DIY methods to reduce the pull weight which a lot of folks performed on their Sigmas before selling them, so there are a number of preowned Sigmas in circulation with modified triggers.
The SD9/40VE has a consistent 8lb trigger, but the SW9/40VE had triggers ranging from 10lbs to 12lbs, so it's entirely possible to get a SW40VE with a 10lb trigger which could be worked down to 8lbs with use or polishing of trigger components.
It's important to note that when the SD was first introduced, it was not marketed as a replacement/upgrade for the Sigma, but rather as a stop gap between the Sigma and the M&P. The SD actually coexisted with the Sigma for a couple of years, but was unsuccessful because it turned out nobody really wanted a premium Sigma, and so folks either opted for the cheaper Sigma or the slightly more expensive M&P. However, Smith & Wesson had already invested so much in the SD that they chose to discontinue the Sigma in favor of simply offering a reduced price version of the SD using the same cost saving measures, hence the adoption of the VE (Value Enhanced) prefix from the Sigma line.
So in other words, the SD wasn't even designed to offer enough of a tangible benefit over the Sigma to tempt those who already owned one to upgrade to the SD, it was designed as an alternative for those who couldn't decide between a Sigma and a M&P by offering a compromise between the two which ultimately wasn't even successful.
The SD9/40VE has a consistent 8lb trigger, but the SW9/40VE had triggers ranging from 10lbs to 12lbs, so it's entirely possible to get a SW40VE with a 10lb trigger which could be worked down to 8lbs with use or polishing of trigger components.
It's important to note that when the SD was first introduced, it was not marketed as a replacement/upgrade for the Sigma, but rather as a stop gap between the Sigma and the M&P. The SD actually coexisted with the Sigma for a couple of years, but was unsuccessful because it turned out nobody really wanted a premium Sigma, and so folks either opted for the cheaper Sigma or the slightly more expensive M&P. However, Smith & Wesson had already invested so much in the SD that they chose to discontinue the Sigma in favor of simply offering a reduced price version of the SD using the same cost saving measures, hence the adoption of the VE (Value Enhanced) prefix from the Sigma line.
So in other words, the SD wasn't even designed to offer enough of a tangible benefit over the Sigma to tempt those who already owned one to upgrade to the SD, it was designed as an alternative for those who couldn't decide between a Sigma and a M&P by offering a compromise between the two which ultimately wasn't even successful.
Ruger Nut
US Veteran
If it's a factory Sigma trigger it's about 12 lbs. I had (2), 9mm and .40. I put an APEX trigger and spring kit in them bringing the pull down to 7 lbs. I sold them to a cousin. When we usually get together to shoot he brings them out.
They're okay, but I still prefer my 4.75 lb. trigger in my SD9.
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HEADKNOCKER
Member
Hey Ruger Nut!!
Is that a Galloway Precision Flat Faced Trigger in your SD9 or an Apex Trigger?
I was looking at those last night & that looks like a Galloway but you said Apex..
I'll NOTE: Apex offers a FDE Trigger as well as one with the FDE Safety JFYI
Boudica Short Stroke Trigger for Smith & Wesson SD VE and Sigma VE Pistols > Galloway Precision
https://www.apextactical.com/action-enhancement-kit-for-sdve
Picked Up a SD9 FDE Friday afternoon for $285
Payed $249 for my Shield 9mm 2.0 Pre Pandemic & the SD9 is the least expensive handgun I have found in the last two years that I WANTED, Didn't NEED it..
I Think the SD9/SD40 is a solid platform & Really Until now only noticed the resemblance of them to a Heckler & Koch USP
It's the way the slide is contoured.. I knew there was something about it that drew me to it..
Not as square & blocky looking as a Glock..
Also my SD9 fits in many of my Hk Holsters
Is that a Galloway Precision Flat Faced Trigger in your SD9 or an Apex Trigger?
I was looking at those last night & that looks like a Galloway but you said Apex..
I'll NOTE: Apex offers a FDE Trigger as well as one with the FDE Safety JFYI
Boudica Short Stroke Trigger for Smith & Wesson SD VE and Sigma VE Pistols > Galloway Precision
https://www.apextactical.com/action-enhancement-kit-for-sdve
Picked Up a SD9 FDE Friday afternoon for $285
Payed $249 for my Shield 9mm 2.0 Pre Pandemic & the SD9 is the least expensive handgun I have found in the last two years that I WANTED, Didn't NEED it..
I Think the SD9/SD40 is a solid platform & Really Until now only noticed the resemblance of them to a Heckler & Koch USP
It's the way the slide is contoured.. I knew there was something about it that drew me to it..
Not as square & blocky looking as a Glock..
Also my SD9 fits in many of my Hk Holsters
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HEADKNOCKER
Member
I Re-Read your post & now see that you said Apex in a Sigma
Assume that's a Galloway in your photo of the SD9
Gary/Hk
STORMINORMAN
Member
Have enjoyed our SW40VE (our 1st .40) for many, many years: added better nightsights, the Apex kit, etc.
Thousands of trouble-free rounds, many extra magazines, even bought a complete extra upper assembly, once thinking about having the slide machined for a red dot...
Bought a M&P 40 PC C.O.R.E. instead. (For about $250 more than the machining, etc. Co$t!)
Best value in a totally reliable budget pistol, IMHO.
Cheers!
Thousands of trouble-free rounds, many extra magazines, even bought a complete extra upper assembly, once thinking about having the slide machined for a red dot...
Bought a M&P 40 PC C.O.R.E. instead. (For about $250 more than the machining, etc. Co$t!)
Best value in a totally reliable budget pistol, IMHO.
Cheers!
Ruger Nut
US Veteran
Hey Ruger Nut!!
Is that a Galloway Precision Flat Faced Trigger in your SD9 or an Apex Trigger?
I was looking at those last night & that looks like a Galloway but you said Apex..
I'll NOTE: Apex offers a FDE Trigger as well as one with the FDE Safety JFYI
Boudica Short Stroke Trigger for Smith & Wesson SD VE and Sigma VE Pistols > Galloway Precision
Action Enhancement Kit for SDVE
Picked Up a SD9 FDE Friday afternoon for $285
Payed $249 for my Shield 9mm 2.0 Pre Pandemic & the SD9 is the least expensive handgun I have found in the last two years that I WANTED, Didn't NEED it..
I Think the SD9/SD40 is a solid platform & Really Until now only noticed the resemblance of them to a Heckler & Koch USP
It's the way the slide is contoured.. I knew there was something about it that drew me to it..
Not as square & blocky looking as a Glock..
Also my SD9 fits in many of my Hk Holsters
It's a GALLOWAY BOUDICA trigger. It's made from carbon fiber.
I had an APEX trigger with the APEX spring kit in my SD9. I found the GB trigger was 10X better than an APEX. I also removed the APEX spring kit and installed a WESBAUN spring kit. It's A LOT better than the APEX spring kit as well.
My SD9 is MORE of a tack driver now then it was with the APEX parts. The trigger pull is 4.75 lbs.
Boudica Short Stroke Trigger for Smith & Wesson SD VE and Sigma VE Pistols > Galloway Precision
S&W SD VE Trigger Spring Kit for Smith & Wesson SD9 SD40 SD9VE SD40VE 107-120 - Wesbaun Gun Springs
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HEADKNOCKER
Member
Thanks Ruger Nut.
I intend on doing the exact same as you describe with the same parts
Like the flat faced trigger & the idea of lightening the pull some
There are several sharp burrs on some of the sheet metal parts that need deburred to make the return smoother & that can be remedied while it's all apart
Read were some have a bad time with the trigger install I guess not understanding the order in which to put it back together + not having the proper roll pin punches & slave pins etc.
Galloway is always coming up with crazy names for their triggers
I assume that's Brandon Langsdon coming up with those names
Must be into Ancient History
Wonder if He's kin folk to Ernest Langsdon? Top Beretta Gunsmith & Pro Shooter
Thanks Again Ruger Nut
Gary
I intend on doing the exact same as you describe with the same parts
Like the flat faced trigger & the idea of lightening the pull some
There are several sharp burrs on some of the sheet metal parts that need deburred to make the return smoother & that can be remedied while it's all apart
Read were some have a bad time with the trigger install I guess not understanding the order in which to put it back together + not having the proper roll pin punches & slave pins etc.
Galloway is always coming up with crazy names for their triggers
I assume that's Brandon Langsdon coming up with those names
Must be into Ancient History
Wonder if He's kin folk to Ernest Langsdon? Top Beretta Gunsmith & Pro Shooter
Thanks Again Ruger Nut
Gary
luangtom
US Veteran
I read these posts after Christmas and purchased the Galloway Boudica trigger for the SD9-series. I am impressed. I have not run 100s of rounds, but a few magazines and it is certainly an improvement over stock. I am pleased and thank you gents for posting your results on here.
Ruger Nut
US Veteran
You're very welcome, Sir!
I like the APEX trigger and spring kits in my other firearms. I found that the Galloway Carbon Fiber trigger is much better in my SD9 over the APEX.
The Wesbaun spring kit is more of my "CUP OF TEA" spring kit over the APEX kit.
Only "YOU" can decide which is better.
Ruger Nut
US Veteran
Yes, it is. You can see the Carbon Fiber pattern in it.
APEX is a great trigger in my other firearms. They just wish they could make a Carbon Fiber trigger as good as the Boudica for the SD9.
Okay, you need to stop with the FDE 9mm buying. Get one in .40 caliber!
Wayne
I have them both, both in .40; actually thought I was getting a deal on a 2nd Sigma…turned out to be an SD.
I like them both, they are both stock, reliable, and more-than-accurate enough. I honestly can't tell any difference when shooting them. The Sigma's trigger definitely got better over time, so maybe the SD's was better to start with, but to me, any difference between them is negligible.
Sam
I have both since they were first made. I have many rounds though 40 & 9mm. They are not Bullseye guns, but are reliable for everything else. Be Safe,
Just put the Apex trigger kit in my FDE SD9. Night and day difference, IMHO. Well worth the money. I put a spring kit in my Sigma 9 and it was a definite improvement over the stock trigger. The only spring I didn't replace was the sear spring for the simple reason, the pin holding it in the sear block would not easily come out, so I didn't want to force it. There are numerous videos out there showing in detail how to r&r the springs. Its worth the time and effort. Just make sure you have the proper punches and hammer.
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