Silver Bear 9mm ammo - failure to extract

[W.E.G.]

Tried it for the first time today.

Two guns.
Browning HiPower (FN Belgian)
Smith and Wesson 659

Fired seven full mags through the S&W 659.
Four failures to extract.
Each time, the extractor over-rode the rim, and the slide tried to pick up the next round, causing a jam.

Fired just two mags through through the HiPower.
One failure to extract.
Same behavior as the S&W.

Neither of these guns had ever demonstrated this sort of malfunction before.

This stuff.

 

[W.E.G.]

Here's the best pic I could get of the rim from the HiPower malfunction.

 

[W.E.G.]

What I'm thinking may be happening here is, the extractor is grabbing that zinc-plating, instead of digging into the steel. The zinc-plating gets peeled off the rim like would happen if tried to grab a watermelon in a plastic bag. You get bag instead of melon.

Here's one of the cases from the Smith and Wesson failure.

It doesn't help that the underlying metal below the zinc-plate seems to be much more brittle than brass.

 

[W.E.G.]

Here's one more rim from the Smith and Wesson failure.

 

[moxie]

Yeah, the extractor is not catching the case rim. I think I'd stick with brass in that gun. That "underlying metal" is steel.

 

[alwslate]

I have a few cases of Russian 9mm ammo with different brand names
such as Wolf and others but all have one thing in common, steel cases.
I have experienced several malfunctions with this ammo in otherwise
reliable guns. I think your problem is most likely the case mouth rather
than the rim. A burr on the mouth of the steel case combined with a
ring of lacquer is probably causing the case to stick in the chamber.
I plan to de-burr every round of this stuff I intend to shoot before
each firing session in the future.

 

[kenjen]

had a box of that stuff last year, my beretta 92 ate it up without any mishaps, but my kel-tec could not shoot a mag full without jaming

 

[Jamie]

There are a few manufacturers that frown on steel cased ammo, Kel Tec is one of them. When the FTE happened, was the empty case hard to get out?

 

[Charlie8d]

I have had problems with Russian steel cased ammo as well. The steel, PLUS the coating, I think are the problem.
I now shoot only brass .

 

[W.E.G.]

There are a few manufacturers that frown on steel cased ammo, Kel Tec is one of them. When the FTE happened, was the empty case hard to get out?

No.

I was able to clear the un-extracted case with my fingernail after I locked the slide back, and removed the mag. The case was already extracted just a little bit.

This FTX appeared to be an issue with the extractor being unable to get a solid grip on the slippery zinc-coating -- unlike the situation where laquer/polymer-coated .223 seizes like glue in AR-15 rifles.

 

[W.E.G.]

Both of these guns have tolerated at least one prior outing with 9mm WOLF ammo with polymer or lacquer coating without issue.

 

[Badkarma 1]

My take on the steel case ammo situation is that those rims might be just a little undersized, or you extractors just aren't getting enough "bite" on the rim. If you have a set of calipers handy you might want to mike the rim diameter and compare it to your brass case ammo. Also like others have said, steel is harder than brass so extractor silpage is possible, that and Russian weapons are designed with massive extractors that literally grab a full one third or one quarter of the case! Check out the extractor on a Markarov or an AK or SKS sometime and you'll see what I mean.
Nice thing is at least this stuff is letting you practrice your malfuntion drills! I'd stick with good ole brass case ammo for business of competion, and use the steel for practice. Unless you have an Eastern Bloc gun, then I'd happily let it eat this stuff. Dale

 

[Steve C]

I had similar problems with the Silver Bear 145gr JHP's several years ago. In some of my guns they would hang up, remaining in the chamber after being shot and requiring manual extraction. I ran it over the chrono and the average velocity was 1,054 fps from my Glock 19. I figured that the ammo was relatively hot from the velocity I got and the problem was either a rough or dirty chamber in some of my pistols allowing the steel case to seize being that its not as ductile as brass. Life was too short to mess with it figuring it out and by the time I'd looked at getting more the supply had dried up. Kind of a shame though as the ammo was very accurate.

Now I have shot a full case of Wolf 115gr 9mm with the lacquer coating and didn't have any problems with it other than one light load. Velocity on the Wolf was 1,219 fps from the same Glock 19. The Wolf 115gr FMJ wasn't as accurate as the Silver Bear 145gr JHP's.

 

[W.E.G.]

The rim diameter numbers I get are:

Silver Bear: 0.392"
Wolf "Military Classic" (polymer-coated): 0.391"
Federal Premium (hydra-shok +P+: 0.392"

 

[Harrison]

I dunno, I have shot hundreds of rounds of the stuff in three different 9mm without a problem. I would check my chamber to make sure it is clean and for sure check the extractor. A properly tuned extractor with good tension should extract almost anything. If the extractor is worn and/or tension is off it might not work with all ammo.

 

[BUFF]

I guess I haven't had this problem and am not likely to run into the problem of failure to extract with steel case ammo in my .44 Specials and .45 Colts because... THERE AIN'T ANY!!!!!

The lure of more-affordable ammunition is powerful, but I think Blazer's aluminum cartridge cases is about as low a rung as I will climb down on. I'll shoot Roooshinn steel case 7.62x39 in my SKS and AKM, but that's about it.

Give me brass, or kiss me ***...

 

[Dogguy]

I used Brown Bear 9mm ammo to break in a new SIG last year. Four hundred rounds through it in one range session with nary a hiccup. Accurate too. Made the gun smell like old Russian industrial equipment lubricated with yak grease but that was the only downside to the stuff that I ever saw.