Single or Double action?

[Rastoff]

My vote is dao as smith states. It is the trigger pull that brings the sear back and releases it which is 2 steps which the shooter can not bypass.

Are you talking about an M&P?

I ask because the trigger on the M&P only rotates the sear to release the striker. It doesn't cock the striker or move the striker. It doesn't move the sear back as you suggest. Thus the trigger only performs one action.

 

[Buttercup]

Are you talking about an M&P?

I ask because the trigger on the M&P only rotates the sear to release the striker. It doesn't cock the striker or move the striker. It doesn't move the sear back as you suggest. Thus the trigger only performs one action.[/QUOTE

I am referring to the m&p. See below for explanation.

"When the trigger of the M&P is pulled, the trigger bar first engages the firing pin safety plunger, lifting it upward, and releasing firing pin safety. At the rearward extreme of the trigger bar's travel, it engages the sear. The sear is rotated downward by the trigger bar, fully cocking, then releasing the striker. The striker makes contact with the primer of the chambered round, which in turn ignites the gunpowder and propels the bullet forward"

It is in fact the rearward motion of the trigger that rotates the sear downward fully cocking the pistol. That is one action. Then it releases the striker and the gun fires. That is a second action. As I stated early companies can call it whatever they want but a dao is a dao no matter how they paint the picture. I for one appreciate Smith and Wessons honesty in calling a spade a spade!

 

[Rastoff]

You accidentally deleted the ] at the end of the quote. That's why it doesn't show up as a quote.

On point...
Where did you get that explanation? By your statement, I assume it came from S&W somewhere. I haven't seen it before.

If the sear moves the striker back at all, it's because of the rotation of the sear. The amount that it moves the striker back, if at all, is less than 1/100th of an inch. This is different from a Glock which actually moves the striker back about 1/16" as part of the trigger bar movement.

I get what you're saying, but I still say it's a SA and that description is just to calm the fears of agencies. The reason I believe that is because if the striker were allowed to fall, without the extra travel the above description claims, it would fire the gun. So, any extra travel imparted by the sear moving is inconsequential, coincidental and not an actual part of the trigger action.

I do find it interesting that they would make that assertion though.

 

[George9]

Rastoff,
I'm 100% with you!
{If the sear moves the striker back at all, it's because of the rotation of the sear. The amount that it moves the striker back, if at all, is less than 1/100th of an inch. This is different from a Glock which actually moves the striker back about 1/16" as part of the trigger bar movement. } Also a importent part of his statment IMO! {I get what you're saying, but I still say it's a SA and that description is just to calm the fears of agencies. The reason I believe that is because if the striker were allowed to fall, without the extra travel the above description claims, it would fire the gun. So, any extra travel imparted by the sear moving is inconsequential, coincidental and not an actual part of the trigger action.}


This is what I was thinking too!! George

 

[Buttercup]

Go to this thread in our own forum from a couple of years ago and follow the instructions to the PDF on m&p trigger jobs and I think it will help you understand where I am coming from and what I mean.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/221335-m-p-trigger-job-burwell-online.html

Those instructions and the descriptions of how it works and what moves what are from a gunsmith. One of his slides states....


Sear modification for reduced trigger weight
• Stock sear has hump on striker engagement area that cams striker back when pulling trigger.

I will respectfully bow out after this as the great thing about this forum is everyone has a right to their own opinion and this the last thing I can share to explain mine. Of course my opinion and a dollar still won't get you a cup of coffee!!!

 

[Rgoodwin]

You have a great attitude Buttercup. Some folks get upset with discussions like this. I still say SA.

 

[Rastoff]

Yes, I've seen that thread before. And, yes, I've seen the "hump" on the sear. Even so, the amount of movement imparted by that part is insignificant to the operation of the gun. This has been demonstrated by the very thread you linked to.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Atticaz]

Are you talking about an M&P?

I ask because the trigger on the M&P only rotates the sear to release the striker. It doesn't cock the striker or move the striker. It doesn't move the sear back as you suggest. Thus the trigger only performs one action.

I am referring to the m&p. See below for explanation.

"When the trigger of the M&P is pulled, the trigger bar first engages the firing pin safety plunger, lifting it upward, and releasing firing pin safety. At the rearward extreme of the trigger bar's travel, it engages the sear. The sear is rotated downward by the trigger bar, fully cocking, then releasing the striker. The striker makes contact with the primer of the chambered round, which in turn ignites the gunpowder and propels the bullet forward"

It is in fact the rearward motion of the trigger that rotates the sear downward fully cocking the pistol. That is one action. Then it releases the striker and the gun fires. That is a second action. As I stated early companies can call it whatever they want but a dao is a dao no matter how they paint the picture. I for one appreciate Smith and Wessons honesty in calling a spade a spade!

No no no... The striker is at a fully cocked position before the trigger is pulled. The hump on the stock sear is the portion the would only move the striker back 1/16", if that at all. That was basically only added as an extra added safety, in my opinion. The Apex Sear eliminates that hump entirely and is not needed to fire the gun.