Smith & Wesson Mod 14-3, Burned in Car Fire, Can it be saved?.
- Thread starter RealReglarGuy
- Start date
Years ago, I bought a Chief's Special that had been through a fire. I had it Rockwell tested, cleaned it and carried it as my back-up gun for several years. It worked just fine.
OP
RealReglarGuy
Member
"I would be looking for any dash number M19 up to a dash 5."
Where can I read about the model differences in the "dash" numbers?
Where can I read about the model differences in the "dash" numbers?
BrovoEchoSierra
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A friend of mine who is a retired tool and die maker, and former gun smith, says that if the wood in not burned the rest will survive. This is his rule of fixing fire damaged guns.
With the services of a good gun smith being as high as they are, hiring the work done would be a bad financial move, unless it had some sentimental meaning to you.
That said if the barrel is good, and you wanted to do-it-your-self, or at least most of it, then its probably a rewarding project.
Cold rust blue processes are pretty simple, and if done right, will produce a slightly matte finish that is both durable and attractive.
This project could generate a good shooter class gun, but no matter how much you spend, it will never look as it did before the fire.
I would try and fix it myself, it were mine.
Lots of luck!
With the services of a good gun smith being as high as they are, hiring the work done would be a bad financial move, unless it had some sentimental meaning to you.
That said if the barrel is good, and you wanted to do-it-your-self, or at least most of it, then its probably a rewarding project.
Cold rust blue processes are pretty simple, and if done right, will produce a slightly matte finish that is both durable and attractive.
This project could generate a good shooter class gun, but no matter how much you spend, it will never look as it did before the fire.
I would try and fix it myself, it were mine.
Lots of luck!
Model19man
Member
This is a good point, OP should check with friend and find out what the condition of the old grips was. Were they burnt completely up or did they survive and just look bad? If there was wood still there, likely it didn't get hot enough to damage the steel.
Rosewood
As thick as the steel is, it would have to be literally glowing orange to change the metallurgy which I assume it didnt get that hot.
From SCSW 4th Edition, page 219. An amazing book that most here would highly recommend.
* Before 1957, produced as the .357 Combat Magnum
*19 1957 Stamping of model number
*19-1 1959 Change extractor rod, right hand to left hand thread
*19-2 1961 Cylinder stop changed, delete trigger guard screw
1963 Introduce 6" barrel
1963 Fifty manufactured with 2 1/2" barrel in a serial range of
K544672 to K544721
1966 Introduce 2 1/2" barrel as standard
*19-3 1967 Relocation of rear sight leaf screw
1968 Delete diamond grip
*19-4 1977 Change to put gas ring from yoke to cylinder
*19-5 1982 Eliminate cylinder counterbore and pinned barrel. Small
change in cylinder length to 1.62" with elimination of
recessed cylinder.
The last revision was the -8, beginning in 1998.
Sorry the layout looks so choppy, tried to fix but no success. It looked great during composition.
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WRONG, A hardened piece of steels temper will start to change at around 350f, a knife is tempered to 400-450 to prevent edge chipping a spring is tempered to around 800f. You can make a piece of 1095 a file, a knife or a spring by the temper. In fact it is used both as files and as the cable on cranes. 4140 ordinance steel does not ever get that hard, but it will become dead soft long before it turns orange at 1600, and any useful temper is pretty much all gone when it starts to show red at about 1000f. Plus in the world of heat treating, steel frames would never be considered thick sections for that mater. Orange steel is hot enough to forge, and will start to experiences grain growth which WILL cause brittleness if not reset by normalizing.
Frames are not very hard. But, I doubt once they are normalized after forging, then hardened, they never get above 800f in the temper cycle
ANY heat treated piece of steel that is heated to the point of showing any iridescent color has had its heat treatment ruined and dependent on the heat treatment it may occur well before that.
I suggest reading the "Heat Treater's Guide" on 4140 and "Metallurgy Fundamentals"
But, unless the frame was right in the glowing coals or held for a period in the hottest part of the flame I doubt it got that hot. Take a metal rod and heat it in a camp fire. Unless you stick it right in glowing coal it is hard to get the steel to glow.
Thee reason I mentioned the springs is id they are still springs the frame never got much above 800f. Get a spring even a bit red hot and it is just a coiled up peice of wire.
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As posted previously, we would need to see the wood stocks. If the gun got hot enough, the stocks would probably be ash. As I said, I doubt it got this hot which you also alluded to in your reply.
jrm53
Member
About 30-35 years a friends house caught fire and as I remember it did not burn to the ground, he gave me a bolt action 20 gauge and a 870 20 gauge shot gun and they were in a gun rack on the wall. The 870 stock and fore arm were burnt about a 1/16" deep and the bolt action stock about the same I cleaned the burnt wood off and refinished them. The springs in both were O K, the magazine for the B A 20 was fine and they worked fine, I hunted with both and never had any problems. Jeff
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Walter Rego
Member
I am also very suspicious about the springs being removed as well as the stocks. Have ALL the springs been removed including the rebound slide spring and ejector rod spring ?
If ALL springs are missing that tells me that the "gunsmith" found them all worthless due to the heat exposure. A very bad thing. The stocks may have been charred and/or seriously damaged by water exposure and that's why they are gone.
I wouldn't touch it or spend a dime on it trying to make a shooter out of it. I'd rather spend $750 for a nice Model 14-3 for example, than have a questionable gun that I only had $100 invested in.
If ALL springs are missing that tells me that the "gunsmith" found them all worthless due to the heat exposure. A very bad thing. The stocks may have been charred and/or seriously damaged by water exposure and that's why they are gone.
I wouldn't touch it or spend a dime on it trying to make a shooter out of it. I'd rather spend $750 for a nice Model 14-3 for example, than have a questionable gun that I only had $100 invested in.
OP
RealReglarGuy
Member
Two days ago I was sitting here reading the posts on this pistol, who knocks on the door? My buddy! He comes in and I'm giving him the info I've found out about his old burned up pistol.
I asked him about the burned grips, springs, etc.
First off, he did not take it to a "Gunsmith." He said "I took it to a guy I knew who knew a lot about guns. He did it all, removed the springs and parts, Parked it. I bought the replacement handles. The original handles were just burned, not totally, just too messed up, so I threw them away."
So that is all we know about this pistol.
Like I said above, I'm not going to mess with it. I'll just get a Mod 19-3 probably.
I asked him about the burned grips, springs, etc.
First off, he did not take it to a "Gunsmith." He said "I took it to a guy I knew who knew a lot about guns. He did it all, removed the springs and parts, Parked it. I bought the replacement handles. The original handles were just burned, not totally, just too messed up, so I threw them away."
So that is all we know about this pistol.
Like I said above, I'm not going to mess with it. I'll just get a Mod 19-3 probably.
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