Snubby "sight picture".

[clang444]

Are you by any chance only shooting at 300 yd targets? That's about the only reason you might want to grind down the front site.

 

[Ilike9mm]

Like this:

YES! How did you do that? A different type revolver?

 

[OceanOne]

YES! How did you do that? A different type revolver?

I think you are missing the point...

Your rounds are impacting high because you have the top edge of the front sight way above the top edge of the rear sight. The proper sight picture is to have both the top edge of the front sight and the top edge of the rear sight level with each other as depicted in the above photo.

I other words, ignore the orange insert on your front sight.

 

[dubhelix]

Well, yes, actually it is a different revolver, but it shouldn't matter. That photo is a 3" Model 65, because that's what I carried today. I'm not sure if you are joking or not, but I will humor you anyway. In my experience, almost all pistol's sight pictures look pretty similar. Here's a bunch. In each, the front sight blade would be directly on top of the Point Of Aim. Point of Impact will be somewhere within that general area, too, depending on range, ammo, and skill.
Model 60

Model 640

Model 64

Model 66

Glock 19

1911

Note: when taking the photos, I noticed that "in real life" the front sight seems larger/fills more of the rear sight notch than in the photos. I don't know why that is. Weird.

 

[Wheelgunner840]

Ilike9mm;YES! How did you do that? A different type revolver?

I do believe our legs have been sufficiently been pulled gentlemen!

But, just in case .....


Ilike9mm, why not just remove the paint from the front sight, and work on sight alignment as shown in the pictures? Or, paint the entire front site ramp orange so you won't be confused as to where the top of it is!

Lower the muzzle end of the barrel so that none of the front sight rises above the top of the rear sight as seen in the pictures above. Do you really not understand what everyone has been telling you?


WG840

 

[ARMinSC]

Yall's put that there front thang in betwixed them there back thangs and a makin sure they's is level and the front thang is dead nuts middle of them back thangs yall's pull the trigger and yall hit what yall's aim fer.

 

[dubhelix]

Yall's put that there front thang in betwixed them there back thangs and a makin sure they's is level and the front thang is dead nuts middle of them back thangs yall's pull the trigger and yall hit what yall's aim fer.

I believe that is the exact verbiage used by my grand-dad when he taught me how to shoot, with the helpful addition of "pay attention twere yer poinin that dang thing,boy!"

 

[OceanOne]

I do believe our legs have been sufficiently been pulled gentlemen!

My thoughts as well...

 

[LLN]

Ilike9mm---these boys are bending double to give you quality-accurate and the best info--like the undersheriff in our pistol club(40 years ago)said---boys--concentrate on your sights---I like .44mag--357--and 22

adios

 

[69rtse]

Listen to what they are telling you, I had the same problem with my Model 36 with fixed sites until an instructor showed me the correct way to line up the front and back sites like was done here in this post. I agree the best thing you could do is get rid of the ORANGE PAINT on the front sites, that would mess me up too. You will see a Big difference.

Thanks Dubhelix, what a great reference to go off of with your pictures.

 

[Ilike9mm]

Yall's put that there front thang in betwixed them there back thangs and a makin sure they's is level and the front thang is dead nuts middle of them back thangs yall's pull the trigger and yall hit what yall's aim fer.

Really, NOT KIDDING here. I have been shooting most of my life (older than 55), most of the time (duh) you line up the front thingy between the back thang...bang. No problem.

I am new to the .38 Snubnose. I just don't get the front sight being too tall! Line em up, shoots low. I put the orange paint on the sight to give me an indication of elevation. It is not bullet drop, target at 15 feet. I want to hit a gonad on a gnat (they make em big here in NorCa), and can't do it; because I can't see through the front sight. Aim high, I still can't see what I want to hit.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[KAC]

Would you please show us a picture of the front sight, viewed from the side?

Thanks.

 

[one eye joe]

Really, NOT KIDDING here. I have been shooting most of my life (older than 55), most of the time (duh) you line up the front thingy between the back thang...bang. No problem.

I am new to the .38 Snubnose. I just don't get the front sight being too tall! Line em up, shoots low. I put the orange paint on the sight to give me an indication of elevation. It is not bullet drop, target at 15 feet. I want to hit a gonad on a gnat (they make em big here in NorCa), and can't do it; because I can't see through the front sight. Aim high, I still can't see what I want to hit.

Thanks for all the advice.

I cannot believe that this discussion is still continuing. Dude, you are JUST NOT COMPREHENDING the many excellent responses to your original post. Many of them are accompanied by EXCELLENT pictures. THE FRONT SIGHT IS NOT TOO TALL ! ! ! You are aligning the sights incorrectly. If you have been lining up sights like this for years--you couldn't have hit SQUAT except by accident..........

 

[Ilike9mm]

Again thanks to all. I feel that I am just not communicating my thoughts in the appropriate manner. Or, there is some great misunderstanding here. I am new to a Snubby, the front sight is a little too tall to get the alignment that I am used to: as on the hundreds of handguns I've fired.

 

[one eye joe]

You are unwilling/unable to comprehend what numerous posters have told you. I suggest that you grind the front sight clean off the barrel, and be done with it. (you WON'T BE HAPPY until you do) Make sure you post a range report after you're done......

 

[Chubbs103]

I am new to the .38 Snubnose. I just don't get the front sight being too tall! Line em up, shoots low.
Thanks for all the advice.

I am going to attempt to keep this moving in a positive direction for you here. I have a question: are you shooting low and left as well?

There is a strong tendency to push the muzzle down and to the left when you first start shooting a DA snub. I strongly urge you to see where it shoots with someone familiar with this type of revolver.

Bullets lighter than 158gr can often print low as well. I am curious what type ammo you are using.

Chubbs

 

[dubhelix]

Despite an unorthodox sight picture, your photo displays adequate combat accuracy. Aim for Center of Mass ( middle of torso ). Paint the whole front sight bright orange, and realize that your modified model 60 weapons system is designed for emergency self defense. See Col. Charles Askins methodology:

"A hard-kicking gun can be controlled in only one way: it must he gripped with a powerful hand pressure. Practice a grip on the belly gun that will crush granite. Such a heavy hand will bring the weapon under control and keep it there. Practice on man targets and do not fire at them more than 30 feet. Do not fire single shots, trigger off bursts of 2 or 3. Extend the arm full length in the beginning and simply look over the barrel. Later on commence to break the elbow and hold the gun below eye level. Shots come faster. Accuracy is just as good from this lower position it is just a matter of practice." -Col. C. Askins


If you remain convinced that your pistol is defective, I would be willing to purchase it from you for $350, which is a fair price for a defective model 60.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Really, NOT KIDDING here. I have been shooting most of my life (older than 55), most of the time (duh) you line up the front thingy between the back thang...bang. No problem.

I am new to the .38 Snubnose. I just don't get the front sight being too tall! Line em up, shoots low. I put the orange paint on the sight to give me an indication of elevation. It is not bullet drop, target at 15 feet. I want to hit a gonad on a gnat (they make em big here in NorCa), and can't do it; because I can't see through the front sight. Aim high, I still can't see what I want to hit.

Thanks for all the advice.

Again thanks to all. I feel that I am just not communicating my thoughts in the appropriate manner. Or, there is some great misunderstanding here. I am new to a Snubby, the front sight is a little too tall to get the alignment that I am used to: as on the hundreds of handguns I've fired.

Well, I, for one, believe you. Where most of us got off track was that you seemed to be showing us a target where you were shooting high with your altered sight picture. If that is true, then you need a bit more orange so you don't raise your muzzle quite so high. Once you get the gun sighted in, you simply file off enough of the front sight to get down to the orange. WARNING: Aside from the usual warning about going slow on metal removal, you should know that the proper sight height will vary with bullet weight, and sometimes even with different cartridges with the same bullet weight. It will also vary with the grips on the revolver, and with YOUR grip on the revolver. If you are getting small groups and you are sure that you have settled on what ammo and grips and grip you are going to use, you are probably ready for sight alteration.

Fellow board members: S&W DOES make such errors at times. When they brought out the 342PD with a pinned-in red-insert front sight, both mine and the one bought by the town PD's firearms instructor shot low, even with 158gr ammo. Just about the whole insert had to be held above the rear sight.

 

[M3Stuart]

Did you start with a snub? I used to say not-nice things about snubs when I couldn't shoot them correctly. I went to 6" and 4" revolvers, got to where I could hit a pattern. Then got a 3". And theeeeen got a snub.

 

[Chubbs103]

OK, this thread has developed into palpable frustration for everyone including the OP.

I am going to be bold and high-jack it. I am throwing etiquette to the wind. Here it goes:

I know this guy (we'll call him Ilike9mm). He's an experienced shooter, but he is not familiar with DA snubs. He recently bought a model 60 and it is shooting X inches low at XX yards (feel free to give me the numbers Ilike9mm). He was using 1XX gr ammo.

I know the places to start are shooter technique and ammo selection. Beyond that what are his options?

He has tried altering his sight picture in order to compensate and bring the POI up, but he is unhappy with this solution.

After he has someone else shoot the gun, would you recommend sending it back to S&W? If he wants to make this a primary carry piece, maybe this would be the perfect time to recommend a 'smith put on something like an XS Bigdot and make sure that POA=POI.

Worst case, if he determines the problem can't be corrected through proper technique or ammo selection and he doesn't want to spend anymore money on the problem, would you recommend filing the front sight?

If anyone has done this, can they offer advice?

As much as I have wanted this thread to die...

...I feel better now.

Chubbs