Starbucks caved

[speedyquad]

Starbucks caved and went to the dark side.

An Open Letter from Howard Schultz, ceo of Starbucks Coffee Company | Starbucks Coffee Company

Although I disagree, I can see the Gun Owners brought some of this on themselves. If they/we had stopped carrying long rifles into the store and then posting pictures online, this might not have happened.

I have seen quite a few recent videos where people long guns to Starbucks and were arrested for causing a public disturbance even though they did nothing wrong. Bad publicity for Starbucks.

Even though I have never had a Starbucks drink(don't particularly like coffee, but will drink it), my wife has once. I don't think any gun owner should ever step foot inside of another Starbucks again, even if the revert to the old policy.

 

[Jessie]

Sometimes people are their own worst enemy. Just snatched defeat out of the jaws of victory

 

[25elk]

As you stated, it is the overzealous idiots in our midst that ruin it for everyone. Common sense is in such short supply today that I fear it is on the hammer lane to extinction. Stupidity only bolsters the cause of those in opposition.

 

[duppie]

If you were to look over the details of their policy you would find that they prefer if you not carry but will still serve you without a fuss. Now in my mind unless you're patronizing a location hard on the boundaries of a national park or a wilderness area and just got off the trail,any firearm entering a Starbucks should be done so CCW with the emphasis on Concealed....and therefore a non issue.

They, like any business are looking at the bottom line and justified or not a gaggle of yahoos packing rifles sipping lattes to prove a point or boost sagging egos is just not good for business.......

 

[Arik]

I rarely go there, not on my daily route, but when I do I never have a problem. Concealed carry. They are just trying to stay out of politcs. I dont blame them.
You should see some of the weirdos I saw open carrying. I wouldnt want to go in there either.
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[raymo2u]

why dont the get Gun Sense Moms go to the inner cities and use there power against the "bad guys and their guns" instead of the qualified law abiding citizen? get COMMON SENSE!

 

[NCTexan]

I'm not a big Starbucks fan for a lot of reasons... I don't even care much for their coffee. However, I don't blame them after the was this has played out.

 

[Joe Kent]

While I have carried a sidearm all of my adult life I think open carry without a badge close by on the belt does us way more harm than good. Also you that open carry should know you may very well be the first shot by a "bad" guy. USE COMMON SENSE when carrying and we all will be better served by your good judgement.

 

[Jessie]

why dont the get Gun Sense Moms go to the inner cities and use there power against the "bad guys and their guns" instead of the qualified law abiding citizen? get COMMON SENSE!

They'll be shot is probably why

 

[raymo2u]

yea but after we are disarmed what do you think is next on that list for the bad guys? more harm then good.
open carry has its merits. bad guys are cowards and seek out gun free zones to parasite, OC can prevent a would-be bad guy. it can also cause courage in others while crimes are being commited around them, false courage or not is still courage in itself

 

[A10]

Howard is tired of the fight and the attention his coffee company got. I think it's sad, but many people are tired of fighting the good fight. I know that all he wants is to sell expensive coffee to millions of people, not to be drug into a political fight. I think he could have handled it better with a plea to us gun owners to back off.

His store, his call though. I wonder if the number of armed robberies in Starbucks will increase now? Be interesting to watch......

 

[GF]

Whatever .. just another reason not to pay $4 for a cup of coffee.

GF

 

[HKB]

He would have been better off just leaving it up to the state... and minding his own business.

 

[UncaGrunny]

IMO, these Starbucks facilities are private property, so what the owner says, goes.

Just as with the right to free expression, the right to control what goes on within one's own property should ultimately dictate the actions of those who are invited to and choose to enter it. Those who disagree are free to do so - from outside the property line.

I personally don't agree with the way he went about this (it seems like he's trying to decide without deciding, IMO) but I can see where he's finding this to be a political fight not to his taste & disruptive to his intended use of his property. He's got a right to not pick sides, too.

Doesn't impact me directly (I don't drink coffee - makes me sleepy) & if we expect others to stand up for our rights, we have to respect theirs, too - - even when we disagree with how they exercise them.

Or maybe even especially when we disagree.

So, he's chosen not to be an ally; doesn't automatically make him an enemy til he actively chooses to be one by actually banning arms & supporting those who would infringe on our rights to own and carry them. Or so it seems to me.

 

[bluegrassarms]

He's in a tough spot IMO. About as good a response as one could ask for from a company beset on one side by anti-gun folks and on the other by pro gun folks who carry big rifles places they don't belong to compensate for their small "guns".

He's just asking people to stop making them the epicenter of the debate. It's not a "ban", it's a request to stop going in with your AK-47 and posting the picture on facebook. In the end it's a business, they don't want to be drug into a political discussion, they want to sell coffee. So if you open carry do so but don't make a scene about it, if you conceal carry go about your business there and don't make a scene about it, and it'll all be fine. Just stop dragging Starbuck's into the political battle.

In short, appreciate them by respecting that they are a business trying to serve customers and not a political entity. Otherwise you just drive them into the hands of the opposition.

 

[bluegrassarms]

So, he's chosen not to be an ally; doesn't automatically make him an enemy til he actively chooses to be one by actually banning arms & supporting those who would infringe on our rights to won and carry them. Or so it seems to me.

Exactly. He's trying to remain at least neutral on the subject, which for us is really an ally (when ebay and craigslist and google are all against us), but some few people aren't making it very easy for him to stay that way.

This is a non-policy, an attempt to get people to stop dragging them into the issue without actually going over to the anti-gun side. Carry in Starbucks as you do when you aren't in Starbucks and it'll be fine. Just stop packing up your rifles and driving to Starbucks for a media event or photo shoot.

 

[357-RevolverGuy]

Grind and make your own coffee. It will taste so much better and you don't have to worry about a pound of sugar in a cup.

Starbucks caved in a long time ago. They were supporters of Obama since before his first term and are also pro gay marriage. This news does not surprise me.

 

[Penmon]

Well I have the right to wear a ski mask into a 7-11 in July.
Doesn't mean I am going to do it because it would be plain stupid.
Just because I can do something doesn't mean I should do it.

 

[M29since14]

He would have been better off just leaving it up to the state... and minding his own business.

For the reasons he explained in his letter, it's not that simple - unfortunately.

I don't visit Starbuck's but his statement doesn't upset me. In metropolitan areas where people are unnerved by firearms, common sense should have prevailed and our side should have been respectful of Starbucks, not drug them deeper into the mud. Interesting that his letter made no specific mention of concealed carry.

 

[duppie]

Grind and make your own coffee. It will taste so much better and you don't have to worry about a pound of sugar in a cup.

Starbucks caved in a long time ago. They were supporters of Obama since before his first term and are also pro gay marriage. This news does not surprise me.

Ahhh but I do.......

 

[Xtasy]

A Right Not Exercised is a Right Lost

I get it that Starbucks does not want to be in the middle of a political game. But I do think we there is one essential issue :

If in the state open carry is your right, then it is absolutely okay to use this right. If you walk to Starbucks open carrying to get your cup of coffee without any motif of a political statement, why should you be harassed by other citizens who don't agree on you exercising your right?

It does not matter if you agree on open carry or not, just replace it with any right, should you give up that right because others don't agree that you use it?

What will be the next step? Don't open carry because it might scare somebody? If you take away that right what will happen after that?
I bet concealed carry will be the next, and as they can't remove concealed carry they will back No Gun zone signs with legal power. Now you can't really go anywhere armed as the places will get plastered with those signs.

Well I have the right to wear a ski mask into a 7-11 in July.
Doesn't mean I am going to do it because it would be plain stupid.
Just because I can do something doesn't mean I should do it.

True, but if you decide to do it you should not be subject to any harassment. Just look how many people got stopped by LE because they used their right of open carry.
Would you be okay being stopped because you used your right of wearing your ski mask to 7eleven?

 

[UncaGrunny]

A Right Not Exercised is a Right Lost

I get it that Starbucks does not want to be in the middle of a political game. But I do think we there is one essential issue :

If in the state open carry is your right, then it is absolutely okay to use this right. If you walk to Starbucks open carrying to get your cup of coffee without any motif of a political statement, why should you be harassed by other citizens who don't agree on you exercising your right?

It does not matter if you agree on open carry or not, just replace it with any right, should you give up that right because others don't agree that you use it?

There's the rub: your right to carry is in conflict with the owner's right to control behavior of guests on his property.

My mother used to resolve this conflict with the time-honored phrase, "your rights end where my nose begins."

Look at it this way: If you had a crowd of strangers not known to you walk up your garden path to your front porch, set up a bullhorn, a bunch of tents & then spend the next several hours delivering a loud speech demanding the banning of all private gun ownership and their intent to stay where they were, on your property, until this goal was achieved, be it weeks, months, or years...

Would you come out and join them endorsing their exercise of their 1st amendment rights, or would you take the (lawful) steps necessary to remove them from your property?

Where does their right to exercise their inalienable guaranteed free-speech rights end, and your right to control your property begin?

 

[raymo2u]

id probably end up in jail if it kept up after years and years in my ear
i dont shove my rights in your ear unless you do it first...my gun doesnt speak unless provoked and it my right to bear it and i will do so how i want without your say. freedom of speech like in the rules in the forum isnt so free and saying the things people dont want to hear for to long. can irratate someone. i see a difference in walking with a gun holstered and walking around voicing how you think we should live and do things.

"you" does nit imply anyone specific or in this forum

 

[arjay]

The problem with open carry is that unless you're in a rural/hunting environment ,regardless of the law,most people will regard you as a nut at best and a criminal at worst.That's just reality.

 

[raymo2u]

and i could be...in todays definition, and thats fine by me

 

[tompehret]

The wife & I hold CCW licenses. I carry daily; she carries outside of work. We're also regular and loyal Starbuck's customers. On the Saturday of the "carry" demonstration we went by our local S-buck's, got our drinks and told an employee who knows us by sight how we appreciated that Starbuck's had kept off the Gun Free Zone wagon and instead, have a policy of: it's legal and none of our business what our customers do. (I for one am glad there's somebody who doesn't want to mind my business.)
She was polite, and appreciative of the comment. Good enough for us.
I read the CEO's letter. Sounds like he ASKED gun owners to not use his premises as a place to demonstrate. I still feel comfortable there and will continue to patronize their stores, all while carrying. Concealed, that is.

 

[Xtasy]

There's the rub: your right to carry is in conflict with the owner's right to control behavior of guests on his property.

Here in Florida you can legally carry into every store you want. If you get asked by the owner to leave you have to comply otherwise you are trespassing.

So Starbucks has a couple options :

Allow open carry and concealed carry
Ban open carry and ask customers to leave if they open carry
Ban all firearms from their stores

The same goes in case they have customers who are turning it into a political event. They don't like it then ask them to leave, as simple as that.

Not every person carrying open has a political motif. I would be happy to be able to sometimes just open carry here in Florida because of the heat.

My mother used to resolve this conflict with the time-honored phrase, "your rights end where my nose begins

That is absolutely correct BUT then Starbucks has to make a clear statement where they want to draw the line

Look at it this way: If you had a crowd of strangers not known to you walk up your garden path to your front porch, set up a bullhorn, a bunch of tents & then spend the next several hours delivering a loud speech demanding the banning of all private gun ownership and their intent to stay where they were, on your property, until this goal was achieved, be it weeks, months, or years...

As for me or Starbucks we can ask them to leave. If they don't comply they commit trespassing and can be charged.

Would you come out and join them endorsing their exercise of their 1st amendment rights, or would you take the (lawful) steps necessary to remove them from your property

I would kick them out but as I said somebody open carrying to a store does not necessary make a political statement

Where does their right to exercise their inalienable guaranteed free-speech rights end, and your right to control your property begin?

You can ask them to leave your property or charge them with trespassing but you can't do anything if they stand in front of your property on a public road

 

[Arik]

I make my own coffee but I cant always drive home to get it and drive back to my work or wherever I am at the moment.

Lets not drag gay marriage or religion into this

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[HKB]

Grind and make your own coffee. It will taste so much better and you don't have to worry about a pound of sugar in a cup.

Starbucks caved in a long time ago. They were supporters of Obama since before his first term and are also pro gay marriage. This news does not surprise me.

Exactly! You are with us or against us.... Starbucks is trying to be politically correct to appease the anti-gun liberal crowd.... that spells one thing... against us. I'll be brewing from home!

 

[raymo2u]

i like his white suit