News programs try to find any expert they can. One retired admiral speculated they lost communication due to a broken umbilical. Clearly he didn’t bother to do 10 minutes worth of research before he gave the interview.
Submarine missing
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News programs try to find any expert they can. One retired admiral speculated they lost communication due to a broken umbilical. Clearly he didn’t bother to do 10 minutes worth of research before he gave the interview.
[FONT="]I haven’t heard any comments on the news of this Sub’ having any emergency location devices eg; underwater sonar ping or on the surface a dual freq’ emergency locator beacon?[/FONT]
[FONT="]Would seem like a no brainer for this type of equipment[/FONT].
[FONT="]Would seem like a no brainer for this type of equipment[/FONT].
DWalt
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It will be a very long time before anyone else will be willing to participate in such underwater adventure tourism. The one passenger who was in the Titan with his son was reputedly the wealthiest person in Pakistan. I haven’t done any research on just how he got his wealth
Walter Rego
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I get a bad feeling that the sub suffered a catastrophic failure before it reached the Titanic wreckage. Like what happened to the Thresher in the early 1960's. Little to no warning and then it was all over. That would explain the loss of communication. I guess in a few weeks or months when another submersible surveys the Titanic wreckage we'll see if the craft is snagged on the wreckage as some have postulated. It could have had some kind of systems failure, got snagged or just dropped to the bottom and without power they perished when the oxygen ran out. But I'll bet the craft imploded.
At least that would have been quick for the occupants.
At least that would have been quick for the occupants.
OP
Especially since one of the passengers is the CEO of the company doing the tours. Imagine the other passengers on the mothership waiting their turn. “I’d like my money back now”.
The Last Standing Knight
Member
^^^This. Think USS Thresher and USS Scorpion.
For comm to fail so early into the decent with no contact of any kind sends up a lot of red flags with me. The same with the redundant "failsafe" systems it was supposed to have and it appears that none worked.
This craft from what I hear wasn't all that advanced with a lot of ballast that was little more than junk from construction sites. Add in the failsafe systems and the fact it had no locating device on it...this reeks of amatuer hour in my book.
RMS Titanic may have sadly added a few more victims to her casualty list.
She is a grave so I wonder why anyone would even want to go down there to begin with. Let her rest in peace and make the place OFF LIMITS. Treat it like a gravesite.
Do 5” thick carbon fiber pieces float? Asking for a friend . . .
venomballistics
Member
H.L. Hunley came to mind at the first reports.
two systems, txt com and ping failing at the same time does not paint a hopeful picture for me
two systems, txt com and ping failing at the same time does not paint a hopeful picture for me
Reading the ongoing coverage from the BBC, I saw this from a few hours ago:
Submersible experts wrote to OceanGate CEO expressing concern
The New York Times has unearthed a 2018 letter sent by submersible experts to Stockton Rush, [PDF link] the CEO of OceanGate...
The letter in the link above is from Marine Technology Society on March 27, 2018, and reads as follows:
But my guess, even if by some miracle the sub amd occupants can be saved, is that the Oceangate Titanic project is kaput.
Submersible experts wrote to OceanGate CEO expressing concern
The New York Times has unearthed a 2018 letter sent by submersible experts to Stockton Rush, [PDF link] the CEO of OceanGate...
The letter in the link above is from Marine Technology Society on March 27, 2018, and reads as follows:
Dear Stockton ,
This letter is sent on behalf of our industry members who have collectively expressed unanimous concern regarding the developmentof TITAN and the planned Titanic Expedition. Our apprehension is that the current experimental approach adopted by Oceangate could result in negative outcomes (from minor to catastrophic) that would have serious consequences for everyone in the industry.
The MUV industry has earned itself an enviable safety track record over the past 40 years . This is partly due to the diligent engineering discipline and professional approach exercised by members of the industry, but also due to the collective observation of (and adherence to) a variety of safety standards.
This reputation is solid because it was hard won over many years of diligence application and has resulted in a safe and successful record of operation. Our members are all aware of how important and precious this standing is and deeply concerned that a single negative event could undo this.
Your marketing material advertises that the TITAN design will meet or exceed the DNV-GL safety standards, yet it does not appear that Oceangate has the intention of following DNV- GL class rules. Your representation is, at minimum, misleading to the public and breaches an industry- wide professional code of conduct we all endeavor to uphold.
Sincerely yours,
What is not known, however, is whether this letter resulted in any changes. I'd be surprised if not, given the timeline. Things can go wrong even with the best planning. This letter is sent on behalf of our industry members who have collectively expressed unanimous concern regarding the developmentof TITAN and the planned Titanic Expedition. Our apprehension is that the current experimental approach adopted by Oceangate could result in negative outcomes (from minor to catastrophic) that would have serious consequences for everyone in the industry.
The MUV industry has earned itself an enviable safety track record over the past 40 years . This is partly due to the diligent engineering discipline and professional approach exercised by members of the industry, but also due to the collective observation of (and adherence to) a variety of safety standards.
This reputation is solid because it was hard won over many years of diligence application and has resulted in a safe and successful record of operation. Our members are all aware of how important and precious this standing is and deeply concerned that a single negative event could undo this.
Your marketing material advertises that the TITAN design will meet or exceed the DNV-GL safety standards, yet it does not appear that Oceangate has the intention of following DNV- GL class rules. Your representation is, at minimum, misleading to the public and breaches an industry- wide professional code of conduct we all endeavor to uphold.
Sincerely yours,
But my guess, even if by some miracle the sub amd occupants can be saved, is that the Oceangate Titanic project is kaput.
DWalt
Member
I wonder if there will be any litigation over this. I suspect there may be some lawyers already sharpening their quill pens to do battle.
An article was published in the Everett Herald today that discussed a lawsuit between the company and a key employee. The employee had gone on record about insufficient pressure testing and safety issues. The observation window was not tested to sufficient depth (pressure). Clients were not going to be told about the experimental nature of the vessel. The article linked to a legal document describing these issues. This is going to get ugly fast.
Reference to the abovementioned lawsuit: DocumentCloud
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Scary. However, as posted earlier, science journalist David Pogue did complete a dive to the Titanic (and I read in another article that they lost contact with the surface vessel for a little bit on that trip) so perhaps the safety concerns were addressed?
But, as RustyT observed, "Speculation everywhere!". At this point, we simply don't know even what we don't know. And it's agonizing.
YeshuaIsa53
Member
It's already ugly, in a different sort. They still have time if it did not blow up under pressure, so I'm giving them time for due diligence with hope.
It seems to be wise to have a backup plan B. Had something bad happened on the moon, would we look at this the same way I wonder?
It seems to be wise to have a backup plan B. Had something bad happened on the moon, would we look at this the same way I wonder?
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B.C. businessman visited Titanic in same mini-sub
Just read this in one of our local papers.
Ron Toigo, who over two trips during the past two summers spent almost 40 hours in the Titan, says lack of communication is worrying but he's holding out hope for a rescue
Ron Toigo aboard the Titan submersible last year, with the bow of the Titanic visible out the mini-sub's porthole.
Just read this in one of our local papers.
Ron Toigo, who over two trips during the past two summers spent almost 40 hours in the Titan, says lack of communication is worrying but he's holding out hope for a rescue
Ron Toigo aboard the Titan submersible last year, with the bow of the Titanic visible out the mini-sub's porthole.
"...On Toigo’s first voyage, in 2021, mechanical problems resulted in the sub settling on the ocean floor for four or five hours before it was able to rise to the surface again, with no view of the famous White Star liner. The whole trip took 20 hours...
Weights that help the sub descend wouldn’t come off, which caused the problem, he said. But the weights are attached such that the ropes holding them will decompose after a period of time, releasing the sub to float back to the surface..."
(He has has his own speculations as well, of course.)Weights that help the sub descend wouldn’t come off, which caused the problem, he said. But the weights are attached such that the ropes holding them will decompose after a period of time, releasing the sub to float back to the surface..."
LVSteve
Member
My wife found a piece by a Mexican millionaire who took a ride on that sub during COVID at the discounted price of $125K. I think it was on TikTok and in Spanish. He said that the disclaimer paperwork was extensive and buttoned up pretty tight.
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