Suggestions requested, please!

Man, today just seems to be my day for having to disagree with people, but here we go again...

Call me crazy, but I would be more concerned by the prospect of getting murdered than getting sued, ergo I would buy a gun first, carry it with me, and use it if necessary, rather than risk getting murdered because I was more concerned with preemptively building a rock-solid case for a lawsuit that won't even matter if I'm six feet under.

Seriously, sometimes I have to wonder who folks fear most, prosecutors/attorneys, or their own would-be murderer? I would sooner go to prison for lawfully defending myself and my family from harm than essentially allow myself to be killed because I hesitated out of fear of crooked men in suits. Priorities, people!

On the other hand, taking care of things like legal protection, knowing the laws about when and when not to use deadly force, etc., before you need them can free you from those concerns and if you need to use force, you can do what you need to do and know you've done what you could to avoid going to prison, which would mean your family no longer has you around, and possibly loses everything because of the cost of mounting a legal defense.

Priorities.
 
Man, today just seems to be my day for having to disagree with people, but here we go again...

Call me crazy, but I would be more concerned by the prospect of getting murdered than getting sued, ergo I would buy a gun first, carry it with me, and use it if necessary, rather than risk getting murdered because I was more concerned with preemptively building a rock-solid case for a lawsuit that won't even matter if I'm six feet under.

Seriously, sometimes I have to wonder who folks fear most, prosecutors/attorneys, or their own would-be murderer? I would sooner go to prison for lawfully defending myself and my family from harm than essentially allow myself to be killed because I hesitated out of fear of crooked men in suits. Priorities, people!

I agree, maybe -
This is The Democratic Peoples Republic of New Jersey. Can the lady be arrested if someone sees her outside of her residence building but still on her property carrying a gun she bought legally, or is gun possession (carrying) on one's person OK anywhere on one's property? She may be caught breaking a law if an LEO shows up and she's out and about on her farm while armed.
She's in a tough spot. She has to get this creep nailed down before she needs the gun.
 
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I kinda like the manure suggestions. Also a few strategically located boards with nails in them. ATV tires ain't cheap. ;)

I would also recommend a talk with the local game warden/wildlife officer. I do believe trespassing, illegal ATV use and property damage could fall under his jurisdiction. These guys hunt poachers for a living. I simple jerk trespasser would be a walk in the park for them. ;)
 
Man, today just seems to be my day for having to disagree with people, but here we go again...

Call me crazy, but I would be more concerned by the prospect of getting murdered than getting sued, ergo I would buy a gun first, carry it with me, and use it if necessary, rather than risk getting murdered because I was more concerned with preemptively building a rock-solid case for a lawsuit that won't even matter if I'm six feet under.

Seriously, sometimes I have to wonder who folks fear most, prosecutors/attorneys, or their own would-be murderer? I would sooner go to prison for lawfully defending myself and my family from harm than essentially allow myself to be killed because I hesitated out of fear of crooked men in suits. Priorities, people!

There is always room for differing opinions, and a forum exists for the exchange of information and ideas.

Priorities are important. Physical survival is the first priority. Protection of family is right up there at the top of the list. Property interests are significant concerns, but having good insurance is a good priority in that regard. Yes, good insurance can include a firearm and the training required to use it properly and effectively.

Like it or not, agree with the concept or reject it, we live in a litigious society and ignoring the possibilities of legal exposure is a reality of our modern lives. The law firms of Dewey, Cheatum & Howe are competing with Crooke, Swindle & Lawless for the honor and privilege of representing those who can convince a few of their fellow citizens chosen to serve on a jury that YOU should be held personally liable for everything THEY chose to impose upon you. Not to mention the local prosecutor looking to achieve enough notice to be elected to higher office by making a big splash in the news reports by prosecuting a rural property owner who decided to shoot a poor neighbor for riding his ATV where it wasn't wanted.

Physical survival is a good thing. Surviving the modern legal system may be a greater challenge. Of course, if you don't survive physically you won't have to worry about the legal system; you will just be rotting in the ground while your family has to deal with the claims against your estate.
 
Cops love to run their mouths with buy-a-gun advice, but will conveniently forget they ever said it if a kid gets shot. If you don't have it on video, he didn't say it.

Going to guns would be a last resort- in other words- it doesn't matter that I'm going too spend a few years in prison, it's better than being dead, and I'm absolutely sure I would be had I not fired.

OP, are they accessing the property by a trail? You said something about a gate. If possible, start with a chainsaw and drop a large tree across the access point. If it's the access point she needs to use, then she needs a stout gate that open and CLOSES.

If possible, do what the military does; limit the possible entry points to as few as possible. Once you know where he'll enter, set up some cameras and/or some tire spikes.

See also: Caltrop - Wikipedia That's your search term.

Anyone handy with a welder can make a bunch of these from re-bar.
 
First,the OP was asked to suggest a gun. With no opportunity to try various options I would recommend a .38/357 revolver, a 20 gauge shotgun or a PCC (which wouldn't be a horrible idea on a ranch under any circumstances) and that would be the extent of my involvement period.

It's been my experience that people that ask for such advice usually don't follow it and then blame you when the advise that they didn't follow goes bad.

It's also been my experience that most people really don't want a solution they just want somebody to hear them gripe.

Second, there has been some phenomenally bad advice given in this thread. Wasp spray? Booby traps? Randomly shooting at the trespasser and claiming he was on your "rifle range"? All those suggestions are going to do is escalate the situation and very likely get the land owner jailed.

Booby traps are almost guaranteed to hurt somebody other than the person they're targeting and when they do, I have no problem believing that the same police who are refusing to get involved now will take this woman straight to jail and deny that they ever advised her to buy a gun.

I already said if I wasn't involved I wouldn't involve myself. Having said that, there are really only one of three things that are going to stop this.

The first is for the police to arrest this guy and put him in jail. I'm sorry to say the second is to kill him or move far away.

So going back to my original point, if all I was asked to do is recommend a gun I'd recommend one of the 3 I mentioned and stay out of the rest of it.
 
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If you were my instructor I'd ask for a refund. There are MULTIPLE videos all over You Tube debunking the Wasp Spray myth. In a couple of them the person is sprayed right in the face with zero incapacitation.

There are also multiple videos debunking the myth that shooting a person will incapacitate them. I guess you get double your money back!

Kevin
 
Wow, this sounds like a classic case to call law enforcement.
Please explain to me why they are impotent to intervene and arrest a convicted felon who is trespassing and threatening a homeowner on their own land.
That, plus it's already been documented and they've previously been called to help with this situation.
I am truly at a loss here
 
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If you were my instructor I'd ask for a refund. There are MULTIPLE videos all over You Tube debunking the Wasp Spray myth. In a couple of them the person is sprayed right in the face with zero incapacitation.

Sounds more like a flicked Bic moment with a can of AquaNet!
 
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It is hard, if not impossible, to go wrong with the simple .38 Special. We cycle out what we keep handy here at the house but currently it is a few both Colt and S&W .38s loaded. The little spent so far of stimulus money was for 1,000 rounds of Federal 158 grain LSWCHP + P to have a standard load for the .38s here plus it works well in the .357s we have. The main weapon here is a Mossberg 590 but Wendy says I have to handle that one. The recoil with 2.75" buck shot is not too much for her but with short arms she would have to angle the gun to pump it without short stroking it.
 
She doesn't need a gun....you shoot a child and your behind is in trouble .
She needs a video camera and trail camers set in places to record what he does . She keeps a camera on her person...record the run downs .
Document every incident , report every incident with recordings .
Show the judge ...show the jury ... video camer footage is very hard to refute .
Don't fall for the I'll just shoot him ... this ain't The OK Corral and she ain't Wyatt Earp .
Video footage is your best witness ... I've sat on a jury , the camera didn't lie and the guy went to prison .
Gary
 
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Okay, where am I right now, the Twilight Zone? I just can't believe the sheer amount of paranoia and contradictory statements going on here.

It's honestly surreal being on the Self-Defense subforum of a firearms forum and seeing so many folks advising against Self-Defense.

Seriously, nobody is advising the woman to shoot the guy on sight, the gun is just a last resort in case this guy tries to run her down, but you guys speak as if she'd be better off dead than face the courtroom boogeyman.
She's an elderly woman caring for special needs children, guys! What jury would side with a punk on an ATV who was trespassing on private property over her?

Lastly, are you people unaware of the contradiction that is relying on the same justice system for protection that you believe will be your undoing should you exercise your right to defend your own life?
 
Okay, where am I right now, the Twilight Zone? I just can't believe the sheer amount of paranoia and contradictory statements going on here.

It's honestly surreal being on the Self-Defense subforum of a firearms forum and seeing so many folks advising against Self-Defense.

Seriously, nobody is advising the woman to shoot the guy on sight, the gun is just a last resort in case this guy tries to run her down, but you guys speak as if she'd be better off dead than face the courtroom boogeyman.
She's an elderly woman caring for special needs children, guys! What jury would side with a punk on an ATV who was trespassing on private property over her?

Lastly, are you people unaware of the contradiction that is relying on the same justice system for protection that you believe will be your undoing should you exercise your right to defend your own life?
I always enjoy your perspective, but I think you lost track of context here. A couple things....

1) Where does it say anywhere in the thread the lady here is elderly? I didn't see it. She could have grand kids and only be 40.

2) I also think what the lady should do and what involvement the OP should have are two completely different things. On this forum we discuss every once and awhile about how risky and potentially foolish getting involved in a third party SD encounter is. Here you have a person the OP does business with (not a family member) dragging him into slow moving train wreck of a third party encounter. Why is that his business? Why would it be any less foolish for him to get involved here as opposed to getting involved outside a bar.

The lady has a legal problem with a homicidal sociopath. She needs to get advice from her lawyer, the police, and the county attorney, not one of her customers.
 
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She might be subject to retaliation and might need to defend herself. Granted. Slimy troublemakers can do a lot of harm in a barn. My grandpa always help a break action shotgun handy. A 38 isn't a bad idea either.
But serial trespassers, vandals, assailants should be documented every time, reported every time. If she doesn't, then it didn't happen. If there ever comes to be a problem with this troublemaker, his long record of harassment will bit him in the ***.
The perimeter needs to be securely fenced, blocked, what ever, not just posted. I'd suggest metal farm gates and serious locks.
I had horses, we were to primitive encampments and shoots and my horses learned to be around gunfire. I wouldn't shoot around animals loose in the same pasture, they were fine in a neighboring field.
 
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@Ziggy2525

The OP made it his business the moment he came asking for advice here. I don't expect his involvement in the matter to go any deeper than that, but so long as he asks for advice and folks continue giving advice which I feel is motivated by fear or indifference, I will offer mins from the perspective of a man who doesn't base his decisions on what is the path of least resistance, but rather the one that keeps people safe, because believe it or not, I care. I don't know this woman, but I'm still concerned for her safety, and I can't agree with this absurd notion that she ought to walk around unarmed while a dangerous man who has already threatened her life is on the loose.

Sure, she should put up trail cams, read up on local laws regarding Self-Defense, etc, but she should get the gun first and foremost just in case this creep shows up in the meantime. I doubt this guy is just going to conveniently stay away while she makes all the necessary preparations to deal with the legal side of the situation, so rather than have her get caught off guard in a situation in which her only change of survival is to stop the threat, I'd recommend that she gets a gun in advance of anything else.

Yes, the TC should inform her not to get trigger-happy or start brandishing her gun at this guy, but to keep it holstered unless it is absolutely required, and maybe even give her a little crash course on firearms safety over the phone or whatever, but she should still have it.
She asked him for help and clearly intends on getting a firearm, so her decision ought to be respected, as should the decision of anyone who seeks to exercise the Second Amendment rights and defend themselves from criminals. So he should lead by giving her the advice she requested first, then follow through with additional suggestions regarding how to avoid or otherwise approach the legal side of a potential self-defense shooting.
If her talks down to her like some of these folks suggest by trying to dissuade her from purchasing a firearm for self-defense, then he'd be doing her a disservice at best, potentially endangering her at worst.

If certain men would rather face the reaper than a prosecutor, then that's their prerogative, but when they start pushing their opinions as the only correct opinion, complete with contradictory statements regarding how the same justice system which they clearly believe is just as likely to crucify you as protect you, that's when I cannot in good conscience say nothing.
Their suggestions may seem logical and sound enough on the surface, but they lack compassion nor conviction. They aren't concerned with this woman's safety, nor for her grandchildren, they aren't thinking about all of the people who might be devastated by their possible murder, they're just thinking about the financial expenses of a lawsuit and driven by their own unwillingness to contend with the law and fight for their rights against corrupt and dishonest men within the judiciary system.

As for why I assume that she's an elderly woman. Well, I guess I'm just old school. I grew up in a time in which grandmothers were generally old women, (or at least the ones I knew were) so the word "grandmother" is synonymous with old lady to me.
 
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