SW1911 after 500 rounds= Frustration - Solved?

[Rastoff]

Actually I have managed to put 540 rounds through my new S&W 1911. All is not rosy.

I really want to like this gun. With the exception of my revolvers, I shoot this one better than any other hand gun I've owned. I find the recoil manageable and the gun easy to operate. However, I've had numerous failures. They have all come in the form of failure to feed and there are two types.

The first failure is when the Slide Stop prematurely jumps up just a hair and prevents the slide from going forward. I had two of these today. It has happened with the stock slide stop and with a Wilson slide stop. Here is what it looks like:

The second type of failure to feed is simply the round not going fully into battery. This has happened only once before today, but more than 5 times today. Here is what this type looks like:

That is not a spent shell, but is a live round that just didn't go in the chamber.

I shot 71 rounds yesterday and cleaned the gun when I got home. I shot 132 rounds today and will clean the gun in a few minutes. This cannot be a build up of dirt. If it is, then the gun is useless because it should go many more rounds than this without needing to be cleaned. Today the first failure happened within the first four magazines (32 rounds).

I will call S&W tomorrow and see what they say. I will also call the store I got it from because they give a lifetime warranty with every new gun they sell.

A gun that experiences a FTF once in 500 rounds is not reliable in my book. This gun has experienced many FTFs in its first 540 rounds. While this is not the most unreliable gun I've owned, it is currently sitting in second place. Oddly enough the only other gun I've owned that had terrible performance like this was also a 1911.

I'm not giving up. I think it can be fixed, but I'm not happy. I hate it when a new product doesn't work right.

Y'all got any idea on how to fix these issues? I should mention that I'm a lefty.

 

[Dot_mdb]

If you have been using reloads, than test the gun with factory ammo to see if you get the same malfunctions. I had some problems with a new Colt Series 70 that I bought 30+ years ago and when I finally used factory ammo I found that I didn't have those problems any longer.

If you have problems with factory ammo, you should ship the gun back to the factory to have it adjusted.

Bill

 

[Rastoff]

All the issues have happened with factory loads.

 

[Brass Nuggets]

The ammo question gets asked all the time… but the slide sure looks to show a lot of soot… and the color doesn't look right. It should be charcoal gray, blackish… but yellow? What factory rounds are you using?

Is the FTF on the first round? Full Mag?

The slide lock issue… if the tension is good… a solid click to disengage… I would have to say, your thumb is riding tightly against frame, just below the slide lock. How well does the safety engage / disengage?

 

[Dragon88]

For the first issue, check the plunger spring for tension and replace if necessary. There was a thread a while back about a SW1911 with a plunger tube that was loose and launched into orbit. Make sure yours is peened into place and is not loose. I have also seen this caused by bad magazines.

For the second issue, the barrel or feed ramp may be the issue. If so, it's going to need a trip back to the factory. However, what magazines are you using? Wilson? If you are interested in trying a different magazine and burning more ammo, try a couple Metalform 7-rounders and see if your problems disappear.

 

[turbo38gn]

Have you made any other mods besides the Wilson slide stop. I don't see your guide rod, did you change that too?

 

[psquarejr]

I have a feeling your magazines are the problem, how many mags do you have and the brand? Problems occur with all the mags or just certain ones? I had a generic mag in mine and it did the same thing, I narrowed it down to that 1 generic mag, never used it again and never had a problem again.

 

[heekma]

Hello,

After 20 years of shooting 1911s I moved on to other guns for the exact reasons you've expressed-that's just me, not trying to start any arguments.

First: why replace the slide stop? Did the original not work?

Second: as a lefty, what's your grip like? Even the most minor contact with the slide during recoil can cause some of the issues you describe.

Third: what kind and brand of mags are you using? Do they have the more modern folded follower that extends down into the front of the mag below the feed lips?

Best,

Heekma

 

[Rastoff]

The ammo question gets asked all the time… but the slide sure looks to show a lot of soot… and the color doesn't look right. It should be charcoal gray, blackish… but yellow? What factory rounds are you using?

Is the FTF on the first round? Full Mag?

The slide lock issue… if the tension is good… a solid click to disengage… I would have to say, your thumb is riding tightly against frame, just below the slide lock. How well does the safety engage / disengage?

I was using remanufactured ammo today, but it is the same as factory ammo just not the big name. I've had the same issues with PMC and Federal. All the rounds have been 230 grain FMJ.

For the first issue, check the plunger spring for tension and replace if necessary. There was a thread a while back about a SW1911 with a plunger tube that was loose and launched into orbit. Make sure yours is peened into place and is not loose. I have also seen this caused by bad magazines.

The plunger tube seems to be in solid and the plunger has tension on it.

Have you made any other mods besides the Wilson slide stop. I don't see your guide rod, did you change that too?

I did change to a short guide rod. How would the guide rod cause either issue?

I have a feeling your magazines are the problem, how many mags do you have and the brand? Problems occur with all the mags or just certain ones? I had a generic mag in mine and it did the same thing, I narrowed it down to that 1 generic mag, never used it again and never had a problem again.

I have four mags. The two factory mags it came with and two Tripp Research Cobra mags. I wasn't watching specifically for the mag, but I know the issues have happened with both the factory and Cobra mags.

 

[Rastoff]

Hello,

After 20 years of shooting 1911s I moved on to other guns for the exact reasons you've expressed-that's just me, not trying to start any arguments.

First: why replace the slide stop? Did the original not work?

Second: as a lefty, what's your grip like? Even the most minor contact with the slide during recoil can cause some of the issues you describe.

Third: what kind and brand of mags are you using? Do they have the more modern folded follower that extends down into the front of the mag below the feed lips?

Best,

Heekma

Sorry, I missed your post in my first reply.

First: I replaced the slide stop with an extended version. I find the extended one easier to operate.

Second: I have been working on my grip, but it is a valid point. I have spent the last half hour or so going through some dry fire drills. I don't think my grip is the issue, but I'm not ruling it out as a potential cause of the premature slide stop.

Third: Answered the mag question above.

 

[rrockefe]

Suggest you try running a little more lube on the rails for the slide not going in to battery problem. I was told to keep mine wet and anytime I didn't it started doing this when I was breaking it in.

 

[psquarejr]

Darn, I was hoping it was something simple like the mags.

Please keep us informed on what S&W says and does for you, plus the outcome.

 

[Rastoff]

I called S&W today. Their answers were short and to the point:

S&W said:
1. You're probably accidentally hitting the slide stop with your trigger finger.
2. We have no idea why the round won't go into battery. Send us the gun and we'll check it out.

So, I'm going to do some more experimenting, but I believe it will end up going back to S&W. They will pay for shipping so, I'll only be out the time.

 

[10 X]

I'll tell a couple of simple solutions:
1) Slide stop - either you are bumping it or it needs more resistance.
If you are using a high hold, try a lower hold to see it that is the problem.
Get a higher tension plunger spring from Wolff.
If neither help, you can grind (gently) a very, very small divit into the back of the slide stop where the plunger contacts the slide stop. That will give a small amount of resistance. This is a trick used when having problems with extended slide stops.

2)Jam. I have had considerable experience dealing with these types of jams. I've bought a number of 1911s over the years with the previous owners complaining of jams and selling the guns in frustration. I solved most of the problems by using proper magazines.

Both S&W and Trip use wadcutter feed lips, straight feed lips with an abrupt flair. These don't work well in all guns.
Get some Check Mate Industries (CMI) mags with GI (tapered with no flair) or Hybrid feedlips, tapered with a gradual flair. Both of these are considered controlled feed magazines.

Both of the feedlips are tapered and push the round up at an angle as originally designed (GI feedlips) by J M Browning and by Colt post WWII (hybrid feedlips). I cannot tell you the number of 1911s where a simple magazine change cured the problem.

Extractor tension can be an issue, not likely with an S&W. I would focus on the magazine issue.

Very rarely a manufacturing defect with the feed ramp in the frame can be the issue, but very rarely. Contact S&W after you try CMI mags with either GI or hybrid feedlips, if you still have a jamming problem.

 

[Texas1941]

I'll tell a couple of simple solutions:
1) Slide stop - either you are bumping it or it needs more resistance.
If you are using a high hold, try a lower hold to see it that is the problem.
Get a higher tension plunger spring from Wolff.
If neither help, you can grind (gently) a very, very small divit into the back of the slide stop where the plunger contacts the slide stop. That will give a small amount of resistance. This is a trick used when having problems with extended slide stops.

2)Jam. I have had considerable experience dealing with these types of jams. I've bought a number of 1911s over the years with the previous owners complaining of jams and selling the guns in frustration. I solved most of the problems by using proper magazines.

Both S&W and Trip use wadcutter feed lips, straight feed lips with an abrupt flair. These don't work well in all guns.
Get some Check Mate Industries (CMI) mags with GI (tapered with no flair) or Hybrid feedlips, tapered with a gradual flair. Both of these are considered controlled feed magazines.

Both of the feedlips are tapered and push the round up at an angle as originally designed (GI feedlips) by J M Browning and by Colt post WWII (hybrid feedlips). I cannot tell you the number of 1911s where a simple magazine change cured the problem.

Extractor tension can be an issue, not likely with an S&W. I would focus on the magazine issue.

Very rarely a manufacturing defect with the feed ramp in the frame can be the issue, but very rarely. Contact S&W after you try CMI mags with either GI or hybrid feedlips, if you still have a jamming problem.

Right on the money. There is a belief that all 1911s run best with 230 gr ball. That was true 30-40 years ago, but not now. Part of the reason is the many non Colt ramp configurations, but mostly it has to do with the magazine feed lips (and sometimes the follower angle). 1911s are not even close to a straight line feed. The cartridge enters the chamber after multiple "bounces", the actual number depending on the ramp configuration. The timing of these bounces is determined largely by the magazine feed lips.

If you read the literature that comes with most quality "modern" magazines (Wilson, McCormick, and such) you will see they reccommend a bullet configuration with much more taper than ball. Bill Wilson was quoted once as saying that ball was the most difficult bullet shape to get reliable feeding.

Quick check: if you are getting 12 oclock jams with a magazine in a 1911, try some hollow point ammo with more taper than ball. If the problem goes away, then it is just a case of the wrong magazine for ball ammunition. I keep 200 rds or so of 230 gr HP reloads for just such testing.

For ball, I use Colt commercial mags. I've got a bunch of them, and they were designed for ball.

 

[Rastoff]

The guy from S&W also said to try holding lower. I find this counter productive because the high hand hold helps with recoil and accuracy. Nevertheless, I will try it.

I also find the idea that I have to switch magazines disheartening. Why would S&W supply magazines that have a high probability of failure? I will also look for another magazine design.

 

[gwpercle]

My experiences with the 1911 are the same as yours and it seems there is no end to the things that can cause malfunctions.

I've discovered the best 45 acp is a revolver. I recently got a 5 - shot Taurus with a 2 inch barrel. It goes bang every time. Its the model 455. I wouldn't mind having a Tracker with 4 inch bbl. either. Another thing I discovered is the slide of the 1911 in shooting, slaming back then slaming forward, creates a lot of precieved recoil. 45's shot out of the revolver seemed to have half the recoil when shot out of the 1911.

I'm not willing to bet my life on something that may or may not function , I'm going to keep my eyes open for a nice S & W with adjustable sights, maybe one of the newer light weight models. That would be ideal.

 

[fred5876r]

Another thing I discovered is the slide of the 1911 in shooting, slaming back then slaming forward, creates a lot of precieved recoil. 45's shot out of the revolver seemed to have half the recoil when shot out of the 1911.

My impression is exactly the opposite, and I always assumed it is because the slide on a 1911 "absorbs" some of the recoil as it moves rearward, while 100% of the recoil impulse of a revolver goes directly into the frame. To me the recoil impulse I feel in my 625 is noticeably stronger than what I feel in a .45 1911.

 

[oldman45]

I have been shooting 1911 firearms for the last 40+ yrs. Been carrying a S&W 1911 100% of the time for 2 yrs now.

The only real issues I experienced has been with a Norinco. Currently I have five different makes of 1911 guns. All with five inch barrels. No issues with feeding, firing or lockups whatsoever.

My only concern with the S&W was a loose ambi safety. I am shocked so many have had issues with 1911s. They must work good because every gun maker has one and they took millions through WWII.

I am not saying one cannot malfunction because they can. I seldom hear of any.

However, changing to shorter springs or any other modifications can cause issues.

 

[Rastoff]

I haven't changed any springs.