Talk me out of buying a Bodyguard 2.0 -

[hardluk1]

Thinking about adding this one to the stable. I've read here some conflicting information, from problems, to parts dropping out, snappiness, to sheer love. My other concern is the .380 being sufficient as a self-defense round.

The BG 2.0 would be in my regular EDC routine. So why should I buy one? Serious replies only - thank you!

Rich

Hum , Serious Reply's Only !

IF you have to ask you do not need or want a 380 or you would already have one .

 

[ImDrRich]

380 with quality ammo (I use Federal HST) is good enough for my use.

I have multiple 365's and love them. Why I bought and carry this gun is simple. It is lighter and thinner than the 365. Sometimes I want small. This gun is noticeably smaller when you carry.

I doubt anybody who has shot this gun has ever used the term "snappy". This gun is a locked breech firearm with a very acceptable grip design. I don't have any guns that get your grip higher up on the backstrap than this one. I can get 3 fingers on the gun with the flush mag. All of the above means this gun is as far from snappy as you can get. I have shot and owned many 380's. PPK/S, Beretta 80 series, etc. Those are snappy. This gun is a pussycat to shoot.

Mine came with the sights visibly off and required the rear to be drifted to center POI. Smith should do better.

I only have 250 rounds through mine so far (only had it a week or two). Russian steel, old WWB, and 3 brands of hollow points including HST's. The WWB was a very flat nose bullet that I have read reports of issues with but my gun has fed them all.

I had to operate the safety a couple hundred times in addition to live fire to get it to smooth out. It now is easily swept off on the draw. Good trigger, great sights for a small gun.

Only issue I really hand is the tiny slide. I was shooting in the rain and I was wet and the gun was wet. I found under those conditions the slide even with the very good serrations could slip. I ended up buying the Talon Grip skateboard pattern for the slide. I put on their front and rear tapes and now I can't imagine having any issues grip wise. Money well spent to me.

I am all in on this gun. It disappears even in my Florida summertime outfits and it handles, shoots, and presents like a much larger gun. My original BG was nothing like the above which is why I sold it years ago.

My opinion is buy with confidence.

I note that at my range, several BG2.0 owners had to had the rear sights drifted into place. S&W quality control still hasn't been rectified.

 

[Beju]

I would ask, what does this pistol do that a currently possessed pistol wouldn't? There are no solutions, only trade-offs.

Compared to even the micro 9mms like the P365 and Shield Plus, the BG 2.0 is a fair bit smaller, and ~40% lighter in weight. This allows it to better fulfill roles like pocket carry (with a pocket holster) and back-up ankle carry. If you're going to primarily belt carry, the advantages will be less pronounced.

If that means that you'll have the BG 2.0 on you at all times when a bigger gun might be left at home, then that's a benefit. I like to say that the first rule of a gunfight is, "Have a gun." If it replaces a single stack .380, not too many people wished that they had fewer rounds in a gunfight.

.380 hollow point ammunition in general, has difficulties expanding reliably in bare gel and heavy clothing tests and meeting the FBI 12-18" penetration standard. This becomes even more true with the average 2.9" long barrel .380 pistols that most people are carrying instead of the 3.5" test barrel length that manufacturers publish specs around.

Even Federal's HST, which is a great round in duty pistol calibers, is marginal in meeting the 12" penetration minimum in bare gel, and is inconsistent at expanding in heavy clothing tests. I will whole-heartedly recommend HST 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP all day long, but have to apply caveats to the .380.

Some will say, "10-12" is perfectly fine, torsos arent that deep!" but this misunderstands the test medium design. The gel is a simulant for muscle tissue, and human bodies are also constructed of more durable and elastic tissues like skin, bones, and ligaments. Then there's the idea that you want to be able to shoot through the arms, and in to the torso of an attacker pointing a weapon at you, even if the attacker is not squared up like a silhouette target. The much-derided Winchester Silvertip 9mm used by some FBI agents in the 1986 Miami shootout stopped 1" shy of the heart of Michael Platt after first going through his right upper arm. It was an eventually fatal shot, but he didn't bleed out as quickly as if it had gone through his heart and was able to inflict more harm.

Now, with that in mind, some people who carry short barrel .380 and .38 Special handguns decide to emphasize penetration depth over expansion when it comes to ammunition selection.

With .38 Special, we don't have to worry about feeding from a magazine, so some people favor wadcutters due to the sharp leading shoulder of the projectile causing more tissue damage than round nose ammunition FMJ and some unexpanded JHPs, while still penetrating deeply enough.

However, with .380, we do not have that option, because we have to be concerned about feeding from a magazine. From the various tests I've seen, Hornady 90gr FTX Critical Defense seems to be the most reliable .380 JHP, with SIG V-Crown not too far behind. They're still on the low end of that 12-18" penetration depth. If you'd prefer to get that guaranteed vital penetration depth even through arms, you might prefer an older JHP that's very unlikely to expand from a short barrel like Federal Hydra Shok, Winchester Ranger T, or Remington HTP. There may still be more potential wounding capability than round nose FMJ.

We all have to make our own decisions, but I would not be concerned if a bullet makes it a bit over that 18" penetration depth. We're not talking about heavy hardcast or bonded 10mm hunting loads here. Any big city trauma nurse can tell you about recovering 9mm bullets that punched straight through a patient only to be stopped by the clothing on their other side, and 9mm FMJ can be good for 24"+ of gel penetration. Overpenetration may get you sued, underpenetration may get you killed like FBI Agent Jerry Dove.

Summary: If the BG 2.0 leads you to always be armed, that is better than not having a gun. .380 does involve terminal ballistics compromises, but can be, and has been, effective. The BG 2.0 has generally been regarded as very easy to shoot for a sub 10 oz .380, but it is a very lightweight pistol at the end of the day, and everyone's hands and recoil tolerance are a little different. Another potential issue is that it is still early in the product history; sometimes problems become apparent later on, or bugs have to be worked out when production is scaled up.

 

[Brian Parrish]

Concur post #10.

380 is a shorter-range cartridge than the 9mm.
No way to know now what is going to happen the next time somebody tries to kill you. .380 will probably be fine.

Back in younger times, I could draw a 380 from deep concealment and put 8 rounds in the black spot in under three seconds because of the split times.
Nowadays with a 9mm I can put three rounds there in that same time.
If my wrist were firmer, perhaps...
If I really worked at it, because my eyes lose the front sight on the recoil with the 9mm...
It is a financial issue because I cannot afford the ammo to get really good.
Dry fire practice does not improve split times!
However, I do not really believe in "mag dump" fighting anyway.
Oh but I don't believe in "caliber" either.

Let us know how you go?
Kind Regards!
BrianD

 

[Mike-4]

Please don't buy a BG 2.0. I'm looking for a second one and they're all sold out.

 

[Echo40]

I can't comment on the gun, but as a ballistic junky, there's only two HP loads that I remember seeing preform to the 12" to 18" FBI standards for penetration. Federal Hydra-shok deep & Win. White box JHP. Except for ball, everything else pretty much falls short.

There are actually quite a few rounds which will achieve minimal FBI Specs.

I can't remember all of them, but Hornady XTP and Federal Punch are two of them.

Also, there are non-expanding bullets like Xtreme Penetrators, Xtreme Defenders, and ARX Inceptors to consider as well.

 

[smoothshooter]

I would ask, what does this pistol do that a currently possessed pistol wouldn't? There are no solutions, only trade-offs.

Compared to even the micro 9mms like the P365 and Shield Plus, the BG 2.0 is a fair bit smaller, and ~40% lighter in weight. This allows it to better fulfill roles like pocket carry (with a pocket holster) and back-up ankle carry. If you're going to primarily belt carry, the advantages will be less pronounced.

If that means that you'll have the BG 2.0 on you at all times when a bigger gun might be left at home, then that's a benefit. I like to say that the first rule of a gunfight is, "Have a gun." If it replaces a single stack .380, not too many people wished that they had fewer rounds in a gunfight.

.380 hollow point ammunition in general, has difficulties expanding reliably in bare gel and heavy clothing tests and meeting the FBI 12-18" penetration standard. This becomes even more true with the average 2.9" long barrel .380 pistols that most people are carrying instead of the 3.5" test barrel length that manufacturers publish specs around.

Even Federal's HST, which is a great round in duty pistol calibers, is marginal in meeting the 12" penetration minimum in bare gel, and is inconsistent at expanding in heavy clothing tests. I will whole-heartedly recommend HST 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP all day long, but have to apply caveats to the .380.

Some will say, "10-12" is perfectly fine, torsos arent that deep!" but this misunderstands the test medium design. The gel is a simulant for muscle tissue, and human bodies are also constructed of more durable and elastic tissues like skin, bones, and ligaments. Then there's the idea that you want to be able to shoot through the arms, and in to the torso of an attacker pointing a weapon at you, even if the attacker is not squared up like a silhouette target. The much-derided Winchester Silvertip 9mm used by some FBI agents in the 1986 Miami shootout stopped 1" shy of the heart of Michael Platt after first going through his right upper arm. It was an eventually fatal shot, but he didn't bleed out as quickly as if it had gone through his heart and was able to inflict more harm.

Now, with that in mind, some people who carry short barrel .380 and .38 Special handguns decide to emphasize penetration depth over expansion when it comes to ammunition selection.

With .38 Special, we don't have to worry about feeding from a magazine, so some people favor wadcutters due to the sharp leading shoulder of the projectile causing more tissue damage than round nose ammunition FMJ and some unexpanded JHPs, while still penetrating deeply enough.

However, with .380, we do not have that option, because we have to be concerned about feeding from a magazine. From the various tests I've seen, Hornady 90gr FTX Critical Defense seems to be the most reliable .380 JHP, with SIG V-Crown not too far behind. They're still on the low end of that 12-18" penetration depth. If you'd prefer to get that guaranteed vital penetration depth even through arms, you might prefer an older JHP that's very unlikely to expand from a short barrel like Federal Hydra Shok, Winchester Ranger T, or Remington HTP. There may still be more potential wounding capability than round nose FMJ.

We all have to make our own decisions, but I would not be concerned if a bullet makes it a bit over that 18" penetration depth. We're not talking about heavy hardcast or bonded 10mm hunting loads here. Any big city trauma nurse can tell you about recovering 9mm bullets that punched straight through a patient only to be stopped by the clothing on their other side, and 9mm FMJ can be good for 24"+ of gel penetration. Overpenetration may get you sued, underpenetration may get you killed like FBI Agent Jerry Dove.

Summary: If the BG 2.0 leads you to always be armed, that is better than not having a gun. .380 does involve terminal ballistics compromises, but can be, and has been, effective. The BG 2.0 has generally been regarded as very easy to shoot for a sub 10 oz .380, but it is a very lightweight pistol at the end of the day, and everyone's hands and recoil tolerance are a little different. Another potential issue is that it is still early in the product history; sometimes problems become apparent later on, or bugs have to be worked out when production is scaled up.

The Flat Nosed FMJ loads should not be overlooked.
Should be a good compromise between good penetration and slightly more tissue damage than conventional RNFMJ.

 

[Bumpus13]

You are not going to find a 9mm as small as a Bodyguard 2.0 that is still shootable.
If you want the smallest, thinnest, lightest, best designed centerfire auto pistol out there with a good trigger that is easy to shoot well, the Bodyguard 2.0. is the best game in town.
Bar None.

After holding one for the first time, I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment.

 

[ladder13]

I wouldn’t even think of talking you out of it, and I own a P365.

 

[LVSteve]

I know this will bring howls of derision, but the answer to marginal 380 JHP performance from short barrels is to use FMJ.

 

[BLLefkay]

Different strokes for different folks, Hydra-Shok Deep for me!

 

[CommunismDelendaEst]

Why carry a 380 in the same size and weight of a 9mm? If / when you ever need it, you will appreciate the largest caliber you feel comfortable carrying.

What 9mm Luger handgun has a 10 round capacity and weighs 9.8 ounces dry?

 

[CommunismDelendaEst]

I can't comment on the gun, but as a ballistic junky, there's only two HP loads that I remember seeing preform to the 12" to 18" FBI standards for penetration. Federal Hydra-shok deep & Win. White box JHP. Except for ball, everything else pretty much falls short.

Tools And Targets on YouTube has been doing some great work with .380, and has even shot some loads with the Bodyguard 2.0. IIRC many of these loads met FBI standards.

 

[BLLefkay]

What 9mm Luger handgun has a 10 round capacity and weighs 9.8 ounces dry?

Agree! I’ve owned several micros, a P365, Hellcat, Glock 42, FN Reflex and LCP Max. None of micro 9s compare to weight/size of Max and BG 2.0 calibers which I consider effective!!

 

[Mollari]

380 FBI standard ammo.

I can't comment on the gun, but as a ballistic junky, there's only two HP loads that I remember seeing preform to the 12" to 18" FBI standards for penetration. Federal Hydra-shok deep & Win. White box JHP. Except for ball, everything else pretty much falls short.

Lucky Gunner shows that Winchester Whitebox close, perhaps good enough, but Lucky Gunner has a chart with their results. Those seem to be the most valid IMHO. They show Hornady Critical Defense (not others) and Sig-V being the only two consistent in both expanding and getting the right penetration.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP

 

[djohns6]

A year down the road you'll wish you had the money back .

 

[URIT]

Just reading the comments within S&W M&P Pistols has me turned off on the Bodyguard 2.0.

Actually, I feel much more confident carrying my reliable Gen3 model 3953. Each to his own though.

If you're asking the question, I suspect you already have the answer.

 

[biku324]

I bought 2 Shield 2.0s (45 and 40) and they are utterly reliable and accurate once I drifted the front sight to make POI the POA. I had watched this forum for a year for how people smarter than am I liked the Shields they purchased - the only common complaints were left-of-POA targets and some comments on complex cleaning.

A week seldom passes here without threads on problems with the BG 2.0. I'll trust the experiences of folks who put down their hard-earned money and were very dissatisfied. In police work we would refer to these common experiences as 'clues.'

 

[ladder13]

I know this will bring howls of derision, but the answer to marginal 380 JHP performance from short barrels is to use FMJ.

I shoot ball only. Maybe why I have had no issues other than brass flying away…who cares, I don’t reload it.
Haven’t bought new sights, recoil springs, new mags, an extractor, anything.
My Uplula allows me to load full capacity. I eat Wheaties.
Life is good as they say.

 

[cda322]

The sights are horrible. I couldn’t keep a grouping with mine, sold it, and went back to a LCP and Walther PPS.