I met Dr. Ken(Oehler) at the shot show in Atlanta.....Nice guy!
Talk to me about Chronographs
- Thread starter carpriver
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I met Dr. Ken(Oehler) at the shot show in Atlanta.....Nice guy!
fredj338
Member
We're the same guy, at two different price points
Well even then, I am not popping for a new chrono. The oehler works great, just a bit more PITA to setup. My buddy has lots of disposable income & bought a new Oehler 35p. It is still in the box, he just keeps using his CED. BTW, he started with a ChronyBM. He is the type of guy always looking for the better tool. He has a case collator, just dump the brass in & turn it on, sorts it buy caliber. I shoot about 5x as much as he does & I wont go that far!
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This picture is why I use the Oehler.
Everything else is handled by the Labradar.
Yes, I have compared them, and they are close, when the velocities are under 3900.
The Oehler takes about 7-10 minutes to setup, the Labraradr is under 15-30 seconds. I really, really like it.
To me anything else is just settling for what you can afford, or what you choose to afford.
I still don't understand why people on here rave about Dillon, and Redding(which I use), but test it on anything but the best.
They are cheap for a reason. Have you ever heard of anyone griping about an Oehler? Not me, but every other one mentioned in this thread has detractors. It should tell you something.
I have had 0 Problems with the Labradar when tested under their conditions, but the last month, I have been working on the fast ones. The Oehler gets used, which again I have 0 problems with after over 20yrs of service.
Everything else is handled by the Labradar.
Yes, I have compared them, and they are close, when the velocities are under 3900.
The Oehler takes about 7-10 minutes to setup, the Labraradr is under 15-30 seconds. I really, really like it.
To me anything else is just settling for what you can afford, or what you choose to afford.
I still don't understand why people on here rave about Dillon, and Redding(which I use), but test it on anything but the best.
They are cheap for a reason. Have you ever heard of anyone griping about an Oehler? Not me, but every other one mentioned in this thread has detractors. It should tell you something.
I have had 0 Problems with the Labradar when tested under their conditions, but the last month, I have been working on the fast ones. The Oehler gets used, which again I have 0 problems with after over 20yrs of service.
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Nemo288
Member
Now you got me curious.
Exactly what are you shooting at 4613 fps or did you accidently set the machine to cm/sec?
I am assuming that's one of the 17 cal varmint rounds or similar.
Ever calculate the RPS of those bullets going Mach 4?
That's a lot of rotational stress!
Bullet RPS = MV X 12/Twist Rate (in inches)
If you have a twist of 16 that's 3460 RPS!
Exactly what are you shooting at 4613 fps or did you accidently set the machine to cm/sec?
I am assuming that's one of the 17 cal varmint rounds or similar.
Ever calculate the RPS of those bullets going Mach 4?
That's a lot of rotational stress!
Bullet RPS = MV X 12/Twist Rate (in inches)
If you have a twist of 16 that's 3460 RPS!
I have the Dillon 650, the Redding SS, and have went to quite an expense, for perfection, in three AR-15 builds. But, at the moment, my ProChrono digital from Competition Electronics has filled notebooks full of very useful information. It has worked well!
One reply referred to $100 Chronos as a device for casual reloaders, while the $500 units are for the serious. I don't agree with that assessment. I've used the ProChrono as a serious piece of equipement, to obtain the information I needed. The ProChrono is far more dependable than not. Someday, perhaps a more expensive unit. But probably not. I have this thing about expensive triggers & barrels for ARs. Oh well.....
One reply referred to $100 Chronos as a device for casual reloaders, while the $500 units are for the serious. I don't agree with that assessment. I've used the ProChrono as a serious piece of equipement, to obtain the information I needed. The ProChrono is far more dependable than not. Someday, perhaps a more expensive unit. But probably not. I have this thing about expensive triggers & barrels for ARs. Oh well.....
Nemo288
Member
What ever works for one's circumstance is the proper kit at that point.
I got different chronos as my requirements and usage changed.
I got different chronos as my requirements and usage changed.
BRush
Member
Check out LabRadar. It's a Doppler radar chrony. No gates, easy set up, muzzle and down range readings. Unit sets on bench on side of firearm so nothing extends in front of or in back of bench. Only unit that can be easily used at public indoor range. Pricy, but worth it if your going to use it on a regular basis.
Everyone has a reason to Justify their reason for their equipment.
I spend a great deal of money getting my ammunition correct. I personally will not scrimp on the one piece of equipment that tells me what the end result is.
It makes no sense to me that people on this board argue over what powder, a tenth of a grain here or there, brass, primers etc, then go test it on a 55-100.00 piece of equipment.
As I said above if that is all you can afford that is fine, but if you think you are getting the same results as an Oehler, you are just kidding yourself.
There is also a reason why all the youtubers pull out their new shiny toy, and compare against an Oehler. Because Oehler is the Benchmark for a reason.
The day I chronographed the load above, I shot from 660fps 22, 243, 264, and 204 @4600fps. It did not miss a single shot. Under 3900 the Labradar did as well. There is a reason ALL the manufacturers use Oehler.
I think in the future the Labradar will be just as good. In my mind they will update their software, and be good to go.
When I buy a tool, I buy the best I can afford, and the results usually bear out the reason for cost. When it comes to Electronics, you will always pay more for the best. Cheap, and great are not packaged together.
Nemo,
It was a fast 204 I was working on for a friend, I could have gone further, but my gut said to quit. There was no excess pressure signs, and these cases were reloaded after. Still tight. I have no doubt I could have got to 4700, but chose not to. I won't post the load, as I don't want anyone to follow me, but it is not as high as you would think. As I was shooting one load at a time, the Oehler was the only one I would trust, as I would have been mighty upset to have missed a shot.
I spend a great deal of money getting my ammunition correct. I personally will not scrimp on the one piece of equipment that tells me what the end result is.
It makes no sense to me that people on this board argue over what powder, a tenth of a grain here or there, brass, primers etc, then go test it on a 55-100.00 piece of equipment.
As I said above if that is all you can afford that is fine, but if you think you are getting the same results as an Oehler, you are just kidding yourself.
There is also a reason why all the youtubers pull out their new shiny toy, and compare against an Oehler. Because Oehler is the Benchmark for a reason.
The day I chronographed the load above, I shot from 660fps 22, 243, 264, and 204 @4600fps. It did not miss a single shot. Under 3900 the Labradar did as well. There is a reason ALL the manufacturers use Oehler.
I think in the future the Labradar will be just as good. In my mind they will update their software, and be good to go.
When I buy a tool, I buy the best I can afford, and the results usually bear out the reason for cost. When it comes to Electronics, you will always pay more for the best. Cheap, and great are not packaged together.
Nemo,
It was a fast 204 I was working on for a friend, I could have gone further, but my gut said to quit. There was no excess pressure signs, and these cases were reloaded after. Still tight. I have no doubt I could have got to 4700, but chose not to. I won't post the load, as I don't want anyone to follow me, but it is not as high as you would think. As I was shooting one load at a time, the Oehler was the only one I would trust, as I would have been mighty upset to have missed a shot.
Nemo288
Member
I agree in general about electronics.
I was a bench technician, broadcast engineer, and cable TV control room engineer for 35 years.
I used the same basic argument when trying to get the bean counters to buy me a very expensive piece of test equipment (usually in the $10k range).
Sometimes they bought it, sometimes not.
Consumer electronics usually follows the same pattern as well.
I was a bench technician, broadcast engineer, and cable TV control room engineer for 35 years.
I used the same basic argument when trying to get the bean counters to buy me a very expensive piece of test equipment (usually in the $10k range).
Sometimes they bought it, sometimes not.
Consumer electronics usually follows the same pattern as well.
ron_c
US Veteran
This is what I used until 10 years ago. It was a pain, for one person to set up. The first screen was placed 5 feet from the muzzle, the second screen was 10 feet from the first. If the velocity was thought to be, 1000 feet or less, then the second screen was placed 5 feet from the first.
The height of the bullets were recommended to be 6 inches above the screens. After a shot was fired, the switch was rotated for the first number by adding up the numbers the meter went to "Yes". Then repeat the process for the other 3 numbers. Then you looked at the chart, for that number (which most likely was time of flight across the screens), to the left was the velocity in feet per second.
It was very slow and a pain to use, but it worked and cost something like $110, as I recall, in the late 70's or early 80's.
The height of the bullets were recommended to be 6 inches above the screens. After a shot was fired, the switch was rotated for the first number by adding up the numbers the meter went to "Yes". Then repeat the process for the other 3 numbers. Then you looked at the chart, for that number (which most likely was time of flight across the screens), to the left was the velocity in feet per second.
It was very slow and a pain to use, but it worked and cost something like $110, as I recall, in the late 70's or early 80's.
Attachments
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Nemo288
Member
Wow, that's some primitive kit.
Early transistor logic likely.
Before the flat panel plasma, cold florescent, liquid crystal, and LED displays there were no good solid state numeric outputs.
I have a Korean War frequency counter (that goes with a military shortwave radio) that uses nixie tubes for the numbers.
That unit weighs 50 pounds and comes in a bigger box with spares etc.
The whole thing is large enough to use as a coffee table.
I have a later freq counter that has solid state innards but also uses nixie tubes for the readout.
Nixie tubes use a neon type readout where the "filaments" are shaped like numbers and there are 10 of them in each envelope.
Kinda neat to watch them operate but they take around 100 volts and some associated high voltage electronics to work.
Early transistor logic likely.
Before the flat panel plasma, cold florescent, liquid crystal, and LED displays there were no good solid state numeric outputs.
I have a Korean War frequency counter (that goes with a military shortwave radio) that uses nixie tubes for the numbers.
That unit weighs 50 pounds and comes in a bigger box with spares etc.
The whole thing is large enough to use as a coffee table.
I have a later freq counter that has solid state innards but also uses nixie tubes for the readout.
Nixie tubes use a neon type readout where the "filaments" are shaped like numbers and there are 10 of them in each envelope.
Kinda neat to watch them operate but they take around 100 volts and some associated high voltage electronics to work.
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ron_c
US Veteran
Along with the instructions, it even came with a schematic of the unit.
So, my son brings over his new camera equipped drone yesterday. The winds are around 30 mph with strong gusts. The quad just maintains it's GPS position without his hands on the controls. Even though it's being bumped a bit from side to side, the electronic gyro gimbal is keeping the camera image perfectly still. Quite impressive!
If they can cram all of that in a small package, then I feel they can do the same, with a Pro Chrono for less than a hundred bucks. I understand it doesn't take two readings, like a more expensive unit, but it appears that it's readings are quite comparable to the expensive units. One thing for sure, is that I use it in the desert, and it gives a what I'd consider to be a quite accurate reading, nearly every time.
If they can cram all of that in a small package, then I feel they can do the same, with a Pro Chrono for less than a hundred bucks. I understand it doesn't take two readings, like a more expensive unit, but it appears that it's readings are quite comparable to the expensive units. One thing for sure, is that I use it in the desert, and it gives a what I'd consider to be a quite accurate reading, nearly every time.
AveragEd
Member
My plan is to wait for the LabRadar unit to go through a software update or two and the price to come down as it always does with new technology before buying one. I do think it is the answer to a lot of chronograph users' complaints.
But I see that they list its maximum reading as 3,900 feet per second - I have a .243 Ackley Improved with a heavy 27" barrel that spits 65-grain Bergers out at 3,939 fps. Granted, I only have that one rifle that is that fast but I wonder what the .220 Swift guys do.
Ed
But I see that they list its maximum reading as 3,900 feet per second - I have a .243 Ackley Improved with a heavy 27" barrel that spits 65-grain Bergers out at 3,939 fps. Granted, I only have that one rifle that is that fast but I wonder what the .220 Swift guys do.
Ed
Nope. But the electronics are just a part. Just the fact that high tech computers are in small packages, and the pricing has dropped. This particular drone, with camera, battery, transmitter, etc. is around $900 with sale pricing. Never the less, the Pro Chrono does do a credible job, putting out numbers with real meaning. Much more than just a tool, for the casual reloader.
First and always: Chronograph = Oehler. Anything that can give ACCURATE velocity readings vs measured accuracy will give you numbers you can crunch. Actual velocity means nothing (until you get into energy), spread could mean everything. Finite velocity accuracy means everything, without it, why bother? I still use my Oehler Mod. 12 from 1980 @ $100.00. BUGHOLES are beautiful.
Looks just like my Oehler Mod. 12 (Bought new in 1980 @ $100.00). Slow to get the four numbers to go to the actual velocity chart was a "Blessing" when shooting rifles, allowing cooling time as required. I still use mine to this day. I never thought it was "slow" back then, and now it has to wait on me to catch up.
Frank46
US Veteran
I have an Ohler 35P with the proof channel and printer. Has 3 skyscreenes, three sheilds and comes with the chrono and printer all in one.They stopped making them for some years but now they are building them again. Don't turn your back on yours as some fool will sit in your stool and blast a round downrange. That has happened to me a couple times. After a little come to Jesus talk to the offender he usually doesn't try it again. Any shots through the screens is fired by me. I'll do a few strings for someone so that they can get some data. Don't know what they go for now as I bought mine about 20 years ago. Frank.
Nemo288
Member
They are $595 for the whole kit:
Model 35 Proof Chronograph, Complete
And I will say that the actual velocity can mean quite a lot but would prefer not to get into an argument about it.
We can all massage our data as we see fit.
Model 35 Proof Chronograph, Complete
And I will say that the actual velocity can mean quite a lot but would prefer not to get into an argument about it.
We can all massage our data as we see fit.
fredj338
Member
My 1st chrono was sim, used foil screens & a conversion book. Yeah that got old fast. I love my oehler, always works, low light or bright sun, but you need shades in brite sun. I would buy a labradar if i want something "better", but i really want a pressure trace.
Nemo288
Member
Yeah that would be my next one too if it ever occurs.
The main problem would be calibrating my thick custom Encore bull barrels.
I know it's possible and would be an interesting challenge.
PressureTrace II
BTW there are some cool tech articles there even if you don't get their gear:
RSI Technical Articles
I don't necessarily agree with everything they have to offer but it's all a good read.
For instance I think measuring case expansion is worth doing even if it doesn't tell you the exact pressure.
It's data. It's worth something even if only a little.
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Resurrecting the old thread: so after shooting my 2nd chronograph instead of working on my technique I've decided to bite the bullet on labradar Hope as a bonus I can use it at my indoors range instead of driving 90 min to outdoors range.
Hope as a bonus I can use it at my indoors range instead of driving 90 min to outdoors range.
Nemo288
Member
My LabRadar works fine at the indoor range.
That's the primary reason I got it.
Everything from short barrelled revolvers to double rifles are easy to chrono.
The only thing it won't do is shot shells.
Those little lead balls don't reflect back enough energy to use.
Flat base bullets return more signal than boat tails.
Large calibers work out to longer range than smaller ones.
The display actually has a little indicator showing how much "confidence" or signal each shot produced.
One main trick I learned is to keep the LabRadar unit itself absolutely still during firing.
I put mine on a tripod and separate it from our shooting stands which are not exactly motionless.
My results got WAY more reliable and I am not dropping shot results any more.
The closer the muzzle is to the unit (and just slightly out in front), the more reliable things get as well.
You will have to play with the settings.
I find the 12" setting works best for me even if the barrel is closer than that.
Sensitivity should be set to 1.
I can't get it to work at all at "2".
That must be for 50 BMG or 20mm!
Let us know how this works out for you!
That's the primary reason I got it.
Everything from short barrelled revolvers to double rifles are easy to chrono.
The only thing it won't do is shot shells.
Those little lead balls don't reflect back enough energy to use.
Flat base bullets return more signal than boat tails.
Large calibers work out to longer range than smaller ones.
The display actually has a little indicator showing how much "confidence" or signal each shot produced.
One main trick I learned is to keep the LabRadar unit itself absolutely still during firing.
I put mine on a tripod and separate it from our shooting stands which are not exactly motionless.
My results got WAY more reliable and I am not dropping shot results any more.
The closer the muzzle is to the unit (and just slightly out in front), the more reliable things get as well.
You will have to play with the settings.
I find the 12" setting works best for me even if the barrel is closer than that.
Sensitivity should be set to 1.
I can't get it to work at all at "2".
That must be for 50 BMG or 20mm!
Let us know how this works out for you!
