????? Target 38 DA ??????

[Göring's S&W]

I don't want to be a debbie-downer here but here are my thoughts:

If you were the person who ordered the gun, you would have paid more for the special barrel length, and more for the special target adjustment latch. So you already are paying over a stock model. Considering all of this, why would you keep a round front sight? I would think that would be a less expensive upgrade than the other 2, or certainly cheaper than the adjustable rear.

Plus, lets think, for target shooting, a half moon front? They are horrible. Anyone ever shoot that kind of sight? I have an older teens model M&P, and even with the longer sight radius, the thin half moon front is a torture. I suppose the original target FRONT sight could have been removed in favor of the round front, but then again, why do that? Something IMO doesn't add up here.

So the gun has factory parts, and is certainly unusual. So what is my take / theory? I believe that the gun started off as a plain 38 DA with a custom barrel length (who knows why) and someone ADDED at THAT TIME the rear latch to make a target piece out of it. Maybe someone did some kind of competing at that time, or wanted adj. sights or ? I mean who knows. The gun is pretty old, anything could have happened in its life.

I would still letter it to be sure. Its still a cool piece either way. Good luck, I hope my theory is wrong truthfully but its my theory nonetheless.

 

[deadin]

I kind of agree with Goring in that I think it's entirely possible that the gun was modified after the fact.
The front sight of a target model at that time was usually a Paine or Marble which were quite thin with a bead at the top. These could break fairly easily and may have been replaced. This was also the time that Patridge sights started showing up, but without the rear sight blade there is no way to determine (via the notch) what type of front sight it was intended for. (U-notch, v-notch or square-notch)
Also the un-numbered latch makes me wonder if it was a later order and then added to the gun. The short sight radius is also somewhat odd for a "target" gun. Hopefully the letter will clear everything up.

(I'm rooting for it to be correct, but I remain skeptical...)

 

[mmaher94087]

I was plinking with a .38 Perfected yesterday. It had standard factory sights. By the time I could align the front sight on the target I couldn't focus on that little, most usless, thing that the factory called the rear sight! Maybe the owner of that .38 DA needed help in the rear sight department. I'd also want something I could see as they weren't overly gracious rear sights. Alas, my friend shot much better than I and SHE hasn't shot in 20 years. That hurt. Please get that letter on your .38 DA. Mike #283 Oh, Ps. Needmostuff; Tucson is my backyard.. Where did you find it? M

 

[needsmostuff]

. Considering all of this, why would you keep a round front sight? I would think that would be a less expensive upgrade than the other 2, or certainly cheaper than the adjustable rear.

Plus, lets think, for target shooting, a half moon front? They are horrible. Anyone ever shoot that kind of sight? I have an older teens model M&P, and even with the longer sight radius, the thin half moon front is a torture. I suppose the original target FRONT sight could have been removed in favor of the round front, but then again, why do that? Something IMO doesn't add up here.

I too have had some of these misgivings with the logic of the gun including the plain jane round butt grips. Seems to me any one serious enough for target sights would request the squareish two screw target grip.
O my it seems the letter is required and I'm trying to figure out how to print it off the stickey and "saving pennys". Guess I better use nickles and dimes too!

 

[Masterpiece]

O my it seems the letter is required and I'm trying to figure out how to print it off the stickey and "saving pennys". Guess I better use nickles and dimes too!

Hi Al,

I've got a quarter or so I'll donate to the "Letter Fund"!!~HA!Ha!~I'd really like to see if it's Correct!!

Stranger configurations than your's have been "Lettered" & "Correct"!! I can't say with any certainty your's will,but I think it deserves a Letter,Correct or Not!! I do believe the Barrel Length,if anything,was a Special Order,but whether or not the Rear Sight was for sure can only be verified by the Letter!! Hopefully it will!! Reason being,some of these Records are mighty "Iffy" as far as their Detailed Information!! If it's a Single Gun Shipment I think you'll be alright,but other than that it's a gamble!! Let's cross our fingers your's was shipped by itself!! In any case,Good Luck!!

I've only ever seen one other 38 DA Target in the flesh,but it did Letter as Correct with the Barrel Catch lacking the Serial Number!! It was a 6" 38 DA 4th that belonged to a friend & fellow S&W Collector here in Pa.,George Smithgall!! I'm sure some of the Long-Time S&W Collectors here were acquainted with George!! He was a great guy & will be missed!! He also had quite a few other Rare & Odd Configuration Smith's in his collection at the time of his passing!!

 

[needsmostuff]

Ok it's done . At least the envelope is ready to be mailed. My first Jinks letter.

 

[Masterpiece]

Hi Al,

Great!! Please make sure to post Roy's findings,"Correct or Not",upon it's arrival home!! Just a reminder to be patient as it may take some time depending on his backlog!!

 

[needsmostuff]

letter received

Ok, after a 5 week wait filled with anticipation the letter arrives.
The answer is --A resounding-- MAYBE
I 'm kinda speechless. What do you think?

 

[Goony]

If you're speechless, Al, that'd be a first.

Interesting that it letters as a standard 3.25 inch barrel when it clearly is a 3 and a half incher. If that specification was altered via a special order, I see no reason why a target sight might not also have been furnished upon request.

I'd be nice if Amer Patton was a relation of George S.'s....

 

[mmaher94087]

I can believe the 3 1/2" barrel lettering as 3-and-a-quarter inch. I'd guess that the "special order" was for the target rear sight. The quarter inch variance in the actual vs. standard (published) barrel legnth is not uncommon whereas the target sight on a .38 DA revolver is more scarce. Mike #283

 

[Goony]

There is an Americus Patton mentioned in the March 8, 1913 edition of the Emporia Gazette. Time frame is close enough to possibly be your gun's original owner.

 

[glowe]

I really like those letters with odd names. Makes it possible to find the original owner. Here is more info on the name Americus Patton. Wouldn't it be great if he was the guy?

Census: Americus Patton (Gilliam) appeared on the census of 1 June 1900 at Fannin County, Texas.
Census*: He appeared on the census of 25 April 1910 at Whitewright, Grayson County, Texas.
Birth: Dec. 29, 1835
Scott County
Missouri, USA
Death: Jun. 7, 1917
Whitewright
Grayson County
Texas, USA

 

[Goony]

I really like those letters with odd names. Makes it possible to find the original owner. Here is more info on the name Americus Patton. Wouldn't it be great if he was the guy?

Census: Americus Patton (Gilliam) appeared on the census of 1 June 1900 at Fannin County, Texas.
Census*: He appeared on the census of 25 April 1910 at Whitewright, Grayson County, Texas.
Birth: Dec. 29, 1835
Scott County
Missouri, USA
Death: Jun. 7, 1917
Whitewright
Grayson County
Texas, USA

I looked at this individual, also, including a photo of his grave marker, and it's clear to me that his surname is Gilliam, with Patton being his middle name. I don't think this is likely to be who we are looking for.

 

[needsmostuff]

oops, It is a little hard to read on the copied letter but -- the first name is spelled Arner. Even a stranger name. I tried google and got nothing.

 

[mmaher94087]

"the first name is spelled Arner. Even a stranger name. I tried google and got nothing." I found Wilamina Arner Patton. Anyone have access to Ancestory.com? Mike #283

 

[Goony]

It is a little hard to read on the copied letter but -- the first name is spelled Arner. Even a stranger name.

Oh. A-R-N-E-R. Arner, not Amer....

As Emily Litella would say, "Never mind!"

 

[needsmostuff]

Okay, It's tough question ,tough answer time. Like I stated in my first post ,I'm outta my depth/comfort zone on this one.
Taking into account the ambiguous nature of the letter .
1, Is it cool enough to spend the bucks on to find the correct parts for , put it in a box and preserve it.
2, Should I fabricate facsimile parts and have a fun shooter.I have had and shot (and can reload for)break tops before but mostly out of curiousity and on low budget guns I did not care about.
3, Swap/sell it off to someone who lives more in the breaktop world.