TELL ME ABOUT CARDIOVERSION

crazyphil

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I have had a few heart "events" in the past. I have heart failure,
and have had atrial fibrillation. A couple of weeks ago the Afib
stopped, but a "flutter" remained. They say the upper part of my
heart is beating faster than the remaining part, which I don't
really understand. They talk like I will be getting a Cardioversion
in the near future. I understand that they will put me to sleep,
put a scope down my throat to get images of my heart, and use
electrical paddles or pads to shock my heart out of the irregular
heartbeat and back into normal rhythm. Doesn't sound to me
like a fun way to spend a day, and was just wondering if anyone
has had the procedure, and tell me about the experience.
 
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I have had two cardio versions and a His Bundle ablation. They didn't help so it was on to a pacemaker. That was almost 10 years ago and thanks to technology I am still upright.

Insert John Cameron Swayze quote here: (....)👍



PS: as to the cardio versions; they twilight you with Versed so you won't feel a thing. Enjoy the ride.
 
Your heart works in two parts. If they are not in sync, then less efficiency. Sort of like a care with the cylinders not hit at the same time. If they can get you back into a regular rhythm, cool. But it does guarantee it won't come back. Should be a pretty simple procedure. And if it doesn't work, a pace maker and maybe a defibrillator may be warranted. If so, no biggie. They will keep you going for a long time.


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Been there three times:eek: It's nothing like you see on TV..

CLEAR!!!! and you come up off the bed:eek:

Mild sedative and the contacts are applied, one on the chest and one on your side or back. The charged is measured in JULES, as figured out by the electrocardiologist and off you go.

Good luck!! and prayers sent.
 
5 yrs. ago I had new heart pig valve installed. 2.5 yrs later I had to have my pericardium drained. Same length hosp. stay as valve replacement. Thereafter I kept track of my BP and blood/oxy levels. Another year down the road I could tell from BP and BO gadgets that my pulse was way up. I went in on a routine EKG a couple months later and the nurse called my cardiologist and he came in and gave me a cardio version right then. He said my pulse was 145. He prescribed a combo BP and heart rythem stabilizer I've been on for a couple years.
 
Cardioversion is easy, especially if you're the guy doing it! ;)

Rusty1953 described it very well in his PS. They'll start an IV and give you Versed. Versed is a sedative and in many people causes amnesia around the event that they are being treated for. It's in the same family of drugs as Valium, but has the added benefit of being short acting.

It's commonly also used with Colonoscopy, at least at the hospital I go to.

Sadly, it's not used for Colonoscopy prep, because people remember every detail of that. :rolleyes:

The only real risk of Cardioversion is that in patients with chronic Atrial Fibrillation, it can knock a clot loose and cause a stroke. If you take a blood thinner already, the risk is much lower.

Personally, I always tried to avoid emergency Cardioversion in my patients having symptomatic Atrial Fibrillation. I'd use medications first. But, that's in emergency situations outside the hospital and has no bearing on your situation.
 
Prayers and hugs for you Phil.. It sounds as though the cardioversion is something that you won't feel happening and may not even remember after it's done and you're up and about. I hope everything goes well and that you have a good outcome. God Bless [emoji120][emoji120][emoji176][emoji176] Be well, Linda

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I have had a few heart "events" in the past. I have heart failure,
and have had atrial fibrillation. A couple of weeks ago the Afib
stopped, but a "flutter" remained. They say the upper part of my
heart is beating faster than the remaining part, which I don't
really understand. They talk like I will be getting a Cardioversion
in the near future. I understand that they will put me to sleep,
put a scope down my throat to get images of my heart, and use
electrical paddles or pads to shock my heart out of the irregular
heartbeat and back into normal rhythm. Doesn't sound to me
like a fun way to spend a day, and was just wondering if anyone
has had the procedure, and tell me about the experience.

I have an extensive cardiac history including both atrial fibrillation and atrial flutter. Among many (MANY!) of the procedures I have endured, I have been cardioverted right around 18 times total (some procedures required multiple shocks, which is how I got to such an impressive number).

Here's where it gets interesting...

I was also a paramedic for my entire career with the fire department, and have defibrillated/cardioverted hundreds of patients myself in the 30 years I practiced. In addition, I taught these skills to paramedic students and interns. I also lectured for Medtronic-Physio Control for a short time, the manufacturers of the the equipment we used. To make it even more interesting (yes, even more...), I also have an implanted pacemaker made by Medtronic as well (since 2001), so to say the least I was "invested" in them...

So allow me to pass along a little bit of information and a lot of reassurance. The procedure in and of itself is pretty low in pain overall as you will be sedated. In fact, depending on who is doing it inserting the IV might be the worst part. You will not be shocked until you are completely out. The meds they use will put you out like a light switch and bring you back just as quickly - but 5 or 10 minutes will have simply vanished.

The modern generation of defibrillators use a technology call "biphasic", where the machine reads the resistance across and through your chest and calibrates the exact amount and duration of the electricity that is passed through you. In others words, it will always be "just enough" and never too much to do the job. Biphasic defibrillation equipment has an excellent record of converting a-fib and a-flutter in a single shock with minimal after-effects. Oh, and the doctor will not be using paddles - they use large sticky pads that attach to your chest with about 4x the surface area over the old paddles for better contact, conductivity and outcome.

The older units before biphasic became the standard were horrible. They did not self-adjust; superficial 1st degree - and on rare occasions some 2nd degree - burns were common; moderate to severe muscle pain in the chest and abdomen was a typical side-effect; multiple shocks were often required; and it often required very deep sedation. This is NOT the equipment they will use on you!

I am one of the few people who have been cardioverted and have cardioverted/defibrillated others. I have also "given" and "received" with both the older standard defibrillators as well as the current biphasic ones - so I am intimately familiar with the differences. INTIMATELY familiar...

Depending on your overall health and fitness level, you can expect this to be an outpatient experience. With no unexpected side-effects, you will go in in the morning and be home before dinner feeling much better for being in a regular heart rhythm when they finish.

Sorry for being so long-winded, but I sincerely wish you the best and a speedy recovery. We can exchange "war stories" when you get back and feel up to coming back to the forum!
 
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Yeah, me too! I'm another person who has been through this. It ain't no big deal. Didn't work for me either; so, yes, it was on to a pacemaker/defibrilator.

They gave me an Abbott (St. Jude) ICD. That was more than 13 years ago, now; and I can tell you that this device has worked very well.

In fact I am alive today because of it; and, somewhat happily, over the years this unit continues to get smaller and smaller, and is far less intrusive (or noticeable) than the original.

I mean, what the hell? I have now actually lived to see the 'death of America'! The country has actually died BEFORE I did! :rolleyes:
 
I have had a few heart "events" in the past. I have heart failure,
and have had atrial fibrillation. A couple of weeks ago the Afib
stopped, but a "flutter" remained. They say the upper part of my
heart is beating faster than the remaining part, which I don't
really understand. They talk like I will be getting a Cardioversion
in the near future. I understand that they will put me to sleep,
put a scope down my throat to get images of my heart, and use
electrical paddles or pads to shock my heart out of the irregular
heartbeat and back into normal rhythm. Doesn't sound to me
like a fun way to spend a day, and was just wondering if anyone
has had the procedure, and tell me about the experience.
Your heart has its own "electrical system", which under normal circumstances causes it to beat in a regular pattern. The nervous system (Vagus Nerve) can stimulate it to speed up and slow down, as well as chemical mediators in your body (Epinephrine, also called Adrenalin) and others. The natural "pacemaker" in the system is the SA node (sinoatrial node) in the right atrium of th heart. This is the right upper chamber, and receives blood from the rest of the body. The SA node initiates the heartbeat by creating an electrical stimulus that causes both atria to contract, which pumps the blood through the tricuspid valve from right atrium to right ventricle, at the same time through the mitral valve from left atrium (which received freshly oxygenated blood from the lungs) to left ventricle. This electrical signal is picked up by the AV node (atrioventricular), delayed for less than a second to allow the ventricles to fill completely, then sends the signal though the Bundle of His and into the right and left Bundle Branches. These bundles are specialized cardiac tissue, sort of like rapid conduction cables, that send the signal to the far ends of the ventricles faster than they could travel through the heart muscle. These "cables" end in small "wires" called Purkinje fibers, which then stimulate the ventricles to contract very forcibly and rapidly, ejecting the blood within them either to the lungs (right ventricle) to pick up oxygen, or out to the body (left ventricle). This whole process occurs about once a second at a normal resting rate (60 beats/minute).

If the SA node goes haywire, it starts firing randomly and irregularly, and other areas of the atria can also start giving off their own stimuli. This is atrial fibrillation. Not all the stimuli reach or stimulate the AV node, so the ventricular rhythm is both slower and also irregular. In atrial flutter, there are usually a couple of points in the atria that fire regularly and very rapidly, and again, only part of those signals are picked up and passed on by the AV node. The SA node can completely fail; if it does, the AV node can pick up the task of setting the heart rhythm, but it does it at a slower rate and is less influenced by the nervous system or naturally occurring drugs. In these cases, your resting rate is usually slower, (40's) and when you exercise, your heartrate may not increase as much, or sufficiently, and you get tired and out of breath faster. If the AV node can't or doesn't take over, the ventricles can establish their own rhythm, but at an even slower rate. Both of those circumstances call for an artificial pacemaker.

A cardioversion is what is done to override and hopefully end those irregular atrial electrical activities. They are rarely done without some sort of drug therapy to try keeping the natural rhythm going afterwards. The big danger is atrial fibrillation, because the blood flow in the heart is disrupted somewhat, and small clots can form within the atria. Small pieces can separate and travel to different parts of the body and lodge in the vessels there, with varying effects. If they lodge in the small vessels (or even larger ones) of the legs, you get deep vein thrombosis, or DVT's. If they lodge in vessels of the lungs, you get Pulmonary Embolus, which can be fatal. If they lodge in the vessels of the brain, you have a Stroke, with all kinds of bad things, from paralysis, to loss of memory and body functions, to death. Anticoagulation therapy ("blood thinners") is used in patients with A-Fib, to control or decrease the amount of clots that form. That can be as simple as a baby aspirin per day to quite a few choices of heavier duty anticoagulants, as the physician determines necessary.

I hope this was not too elementary or long-winded an explanation. It's difficult to describe A-Fib/Flutter without knowing what normally goes on in the heart, and what I gave was a very basic description.
I do already have a Meditronix pacemaker/defibrillator, and it saved my
bacon last August. Thank you all for the well wishes.
I was a Registered Nurse for 37 years, and for 5 of those years worked for Medtronic as a Cardiac Pacing Specialist. I attended pacemaker implants and advised the cardiologists or surgeon when they implanted the devices, and also helped with followup treatment, when patients came in for checkups. When I was working for them (more than 25 years ago), implantable defibrillators were still in the developmental stages and were just beginning to get implanted beyond investigational use. The technology in these things is incredible and amazing; I'm happy they have improved your life.
 
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I had AFIB. First attempt to fix was a Cardioversion. Heart was stopped and restarted. Went into Sinus Rhythm, which lasted for 4 days.

Next step was an ablasion. that lasted a year, so they did it again. I was told it took some people 4 or 5 of these. I was amazed at what the surgeon showed me of the electrical mapping that was used to perform the ablasion.

Have been in Sinus Rhythm now for 5 years and satisfied the FAA to allow me to still be able to use my commercial pilot privileges. They were concerned about my low heart rate so as a precaution they required that I get a pacemaker.

Bob
 
I started with AFIB abut 20 yrs ago, I've had six cardioversions as described above. Apart from a bit of redness on the chest after not a big deal. While they all brought the heartbeat back to normal, none lasted very long I think the longest "fix" was about 3 weeks sometimes a week or a few days. Once as we were on the short drive home from the hospital I felt the flutter and told my wife "it's back".
About three years ago my Dr recommended Ablation, I did all the prep showed up at 4 am got all shaved and ready, the Dr then said my "blood numbers are wrong" and couldn't proceed. Later my Cardiologist, and I, decided my symptoms weren't so bad, I can still do just about all I want, so continue with the new blood thinners and other heart meds. I see the Cardio Dr at least once a year and keep in mind, as he said,to "go straight to the ER if I have any chest pains" or symptom like that.
So, I stay in AFIB flutter all the time.
Steve W
 
Thank you for all that Jon651. I enjoyed every bit of your "long-winded"
story. Very informative. I appreciate it.

You are very welcome. I also wanted to drop back in with a little bit more information because quite a few here have mentioned that they have progressed with their heart condition and now have a pacemaker - as do I.

Just remember this - cardioversion is only a technique to "reset" your heart's electrical system and get you back into a regular rhythm. It is the medications they give you afterwards that will hopefully KEEP you in that regular rhythm for as long as possible. The more additional heart problems you have (plus the longer you remain in a-fib each time) will make you more susceptible to going back into a-fib again and make it more problematic to keep you in a regular rhythm again. There's a saying for this - "That's life!"

Plus you can expect to be put on a blood thinner to prevent clots and one or more meds to control your rate so your heart doesn't "race" and cause more damage - like an over-revving motor. This is completely to be expected.

If the doctor(s) cannot keep you in a regular rhythm with medications alone then they might recommend an ablation. What that does is "ablate" (burn...) out the errant electrical pathways that are causing the a-fib or a-flutter - if they can find which ones are responsible, of course. I've been through two ablations - plus an electrophysiology study (EPS), plus an angiogram to see if I have any blocked arteries just for kicks. Lucky for me all of my problems are in my wiring, not my plumbing. Ablations are more successful for a-flutter but less so for a-fib due to their ability to identify these pathways.

I'm just oozing with personal experience here.

Once Upon A Time... there used to be an open-heart surgery called the "Cox Procedure" or "Maze Procedure" where they did by surgical means the same thing they do by ablation today. Yes, I also had that done; No, I would NEVER recommend it; Yes, it was very tough and is the reason why I ended up with a pacemaker; No, they don't do it anymore - CAN I GET AN AMEN!!!

(Pause here to allow audience to reply - "AMEN!")

My prime point here is to let you know that the only complete "cure" for a-fib is a pacemaker. In simplest terms, a pacemaker is nothing more than a man-made replacement for the faulty wiring in your heart. Today's pacemakers are mind-bogglingly state-of-the-art as compared to what was available just a few years ago. The new ones are even MRI-safe and are as small as a button so they get placed directly onto your heart muscle with no wires at all.

If this is what the end result of your treatment turns out to be, please accept my reassurances - do not have any fear of getting a pacemaker. At all. While yes, the first several months will be a mild annoyance while they dial-in all of the hundreds of settings to customize it to you, I will guarantee that sometime between 6-9 months after you have it inserted the following will happen:

One morning you will wake up, get dressed, eat breakfast, go about your day's activities, eat meals, socialize, spend time by yourself or whatever, watch some TV, aggravate the fine folks on this forum, and go back to bed - and never even remember that you have a pacemaker! That's my personal promise - it WILL happen just like that.

But first take it one step at a time...

Cheers!
 
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I agree regarding the pacemaker, though it in itself does not necessary eliminate AFIB. You can also have a straight pacemaker or one that is also a Defibrillator, which I assume is what the prior poster meant. Mine is only a pacemaker. I have been in sinus rhythm for 5 years after the second ablation and am not on Beta Blockers, which I did not tolerate well. My cardiologist reads the output of my pacemaker once a week and can make adjustments remotely via the monitoring unit I have at home. I was already on an anticoagulant for other reasons, so that was a help and I have my own INR Monitor at home and keep my INR within the range that the FAA requires. If I went those this 20 or so years ago, who knows if I would still be here. Medical advances are wonderful.
 
As I mentioned earlier, I am on my second implantable cardioverter-defibrillator (ICD). Boston Scientific to be exact. I am still in Afib and always will be.

And, just like caliber and capacity, I don't dwell on it anymore.

Still praying for the best possible outcome for you, Phil.
 
I agree regarding the pacemaker, though it in itself does not necessary eliminate AFIB. You can also have a straight pacemaker or one that is also a Defibrillator, which I assume is what the prior poster meant. Mine is only a pacemaker. I have been in sinus rhythm for 5 years after the second ablation and am not on Beta Blockers, which I did not tolerate well. My cardiologist reads the output of my pacemaker once a week and can make adjustments remotely via the monitoring unit I have at home. I was already on an anticoagulant for other reasons, so that was a help and I have my own INR Monitor at home and keep my INR within the range that the FAA requires. If I went those this 20 or so years ago, who knows if I would still be here. Medical advances are wonderful.

Pacemakers don't cure atrial fibrillation, they can only maintain a steady ventricular rate and can also artificially vary the rate as you exert yourself. Part of the issue with A-Fib is a highly irregular ventricular rate, sometimes slow enough that you have issues with blood pressure and feeling tired all the time.

Pacemakers today have three main functions: 1- they pace the heart, keeping the ventricular rate where you can function; 2- they can cardiovert, to get the sinus rhythm restored; and 3-they can defibrillate certain abnormal and potentially dangerous ventricular rhythms. Most times you don't know they're there, but defibrillation is always noticed because it is a fairly high energy output from the generator. These devices have sensing ability, to read what is going on electrically, and then respond appropriately. If the heart is beating fast enough, and regular, it will just monitor, until it "sees" something it needs to respond to.
 
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