Testing 38spl p+ loads (bullseye powder)

[Forrest r]

The only reason I wasted the time and bullets to do these test loads was simply because allot of people think that the faster burning powders perform better in short bbl's. Well here goes:
10-shot strings
chronograph leveled and setup 10' from the muzzle
4.4gr of bullseye for all loads/bullets

h&g #51 146gr swchp 807fps
Cramer #25 (hunter) 158gr rnfphp 800fps
Cramer #26 150gr swchp 797fps
358439 156gr swchp 792fps
358156 148gr gc swchp 822fps
Mihec 640 158gr rnfphp 802fps
Mihec 148gr hbwc loaded backwards/crimped in top lube groove 796fps
150gr jacketed hp made from 380acp cases 817fps
358431 145gr hbswchp 770fps
Raphine 145gr hbrnfphp 803fps

Combine all 10 bullets x 10 loads for every bullet and the 100-shot string result is:
801fps

The results tell me that I should see +/- 800fps with any bullet in the 145gr to 158gr weight range with p+ levels of bullseye in that 2" bbl'd charter arms.

The bullseye powder actually didn't do too bad. I'm sure specific loads can be tuned/improved upon considering a 145gr bullet should use more powder than a 158gr bullet.

A little perspective:
Lyman's 3rd edition cast bullet manual lists a max load (p+) of 4.4gr of bullsye powder for the 358156 bullet. I know every firearm is different.
They got 915fps from their 4" test bbl.
I got 822fps from my 2" bbl.

Ballistics by the inch lost +/- 100fps in there testing with 4" bbl's vs 2" bbl's in the real world weapons area. And had a difference of +/- 200fps in the same bbl being cut down section, 4" vs 2".

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .38 Special Results

 

[bmcgilvray]

I've played with .38 Specials over the chronograph since 1979 and I've never found that fast burning powders are the best concoction for short-barreled performance applications. Slower-burning powders that produce the most powerful loads in longer-barreled revolver also give the best performance in 2-inch snubs. Fast-burning powders give flat primers and comparatively low velocities.

I've never even considered using a powder as fast-burning as Bulls-Eye for high-performance handloads.

158 Grain Lead SWC/5.4 Grains of Unique

2-inch Barrel
MV 964 fps
ME 326 ft./lbs
ES 75 fps
SD 33 fps

158 Grain Lead SWC/5.0 Grains Herco

2-inch Barrel
MV 912 fps
ME 292 ft./lbs.
ES 38 fps
SD 14.3 fps


158 Grain Lead SWC/11.5 Grains 2400

2-inch Barrel
MV 1037 fps
ME 377 ft./lbs.
ES 71 fps
SD 30.2 fps

158 Grain Lead SWC/8.0 Grains SR 4756

2-inch Barrel
MV 1150 fps
ME 464 ft./lbs.
ES 51 fps
SD 26.5 fps

This data from a thread posted here on the Forum a few years back.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/144598-some-38-special-chronograph-tests.html

 

[USSR]

I've never even considered using a powder as fast-burning as Bulls-Eye for high-performance handloads.

Same here.

158 Grain Lead SWC/5.4 Grains of Unique

2-inch Barrel
MV 964 fps

You might want to recheck your chronograph on that one. My FBI load uses 5.6 grains of Unique, and my 2.5 inch Model 19 barrel does not put me anywhere's near being over 950fps.

Don

 

[bmcgilvray]

Hi USSR;

Not surprising.

Could be that you tested yours on a cool day. I shot those off on a warm June day that year. Could be differences in powder lots. Could be that you have a "slow" barrel.

I once had an 8 3/8-inch Model 27 .357 Magnum that shot the same loads 40-75 fps slower than a 6-inch Model 27 I have.

I have a 6-inch Colt Python that gives velocities 75-125 fps slower than that same Model 27 when tested with the same loads.

 

[Forrest r]

Every bbl is different and yes those are some impressive velocities.

bmcgilvray
Your 2010 data looks spot on. The 2011 data on the other hand your getting higher velocities with the 2" bbl'd revolver than most people get with their 4"/6" bbl'd revolvers.

Like you said it could of been a hot day when you tested your loads. The day I did my tests I started out when it was 75* and ended when it was 78*.

I've shot a bunch of 2400 & unique in the 38spl's over the decades and you're the 1st person I've seen get 1000fps out of a 2" bbl revolver with 2400. Back in 1967 lyman (44th edition) was using 6" bbl's for their tests and was only getting 1000fps from their 6" test bbl's. My testing has mirrored there's.

I've shot countless 1000's of rounds in the 38spl loaded with unique out of 20+ firearms chambered in that caliber. It proven to be an extremely consistent performer. Typically with 158gr cast bullets and 5.1gr of unique I could count on:
800fps from 2" bbl's
900fps from 4"bbl's

Step it up to 5.5gr of unique and a 158gr cast bullet:
850fps from 2" bbl's
950fps from 4" bbl's

An interesting link, at the bottom of the page there's a list of ammo they used for test loads out of a 2" bbl'd revolver. The only thing that comes close to your unique #'s are the 110gr p+ loads.

.38 Special JHP Performance through Bone Simulant Plates with Ballistic Gelatin Backing

Same thing here, they either had to step up to a 4" bbl or use a 110gr bullet in their 1 7/8", 2", 3" bbl'd revolvers to get anywhere near your 960fps unique load.

BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: .38 Special Results

On a side note:
I used to shoot allot of skeet and would use greendot in a 20ga. Seeing how I would have kegs of it laying around I used/tested it in every handgun calibers I owned with every bullet I got my hands on. In 2011 you used a 3.7gr load of greendot with a flush wc and got 670fps from that hot load in that 2" bbl. Back in 2010 you got 707fps with that same 2"bbl with nothing more than a box of remington 148gr hbwc's.

????

 

[cowboy4evr]

4756 could be a real performer in 38spl . Too bad they discontinued it . I really liked it in 357 magnum loads too . Any 158 gr bullet on top of 9-9.5 grs was always a sure winner for me . I still have quite a bit stock piled away .

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have not tried anything faster than W231 for the .38 Special +P and it's not really slow.

The best results I've gotten has been with HS-6 with a 158gr LSWC/HP bullet. I did generate more velocity with Longshot but several factors pushed me to HS-6 instead especially accuracy.

Myself and a handful of others bounced the numbers around from several sources and we came up with a GUESS my 7.0gr load would generate 19,800 PSI. (including Quick Load software) This load is over most current published load data so if you use it don't blame anyone if things go bad lol.

Here's the load:
Winchester .38 Special +P case
158gr Hornady LSWC/HP
CCI 550 Primer (Magnum primer on this load)
7.0gr HS-6
COL 1.475"
4" M686 ---- 2" M640
927.0 -- AV --- 888.9
955.1 --- H --- 897.1
905.4 --- L --- 876.6
49.7 ---- ES --- 20.5
20.7 ---- SD ---- 7.9
17.0 ---- AD ---- 5.9

 

[Nevada Ed]

With my steel 38 J frame with Bullseye at maximum data I got;

win. 110 sjhp at ............. 824 fps
950 fps was my maximum with a slower powder.

Win. 125 sjhp at .............. 821 fps
903 was possible with three slower powders.

Speer 135 GD at .............. 810 fps
851 fps was my factory Dup. with a slower powder.

158 LHP .......................... 752 fps
850 fps with Unique was my top loading below the maximum data
but I also used a very heavy crimp !

For me, Bullseye pushing a 148gr wc with 2.7grs of powder is my top accuracy load
doing 630 fps in my 2" snub nose, for every day practice.