keith44spl
Member
Outside the city limits....I like something with a longer cartridge case.
Always, use enough gun.
Su Amigo,
Dave
Always, use enough gun.
Su Amigo,
Dave
The .45 ACP as a woods gun?
- Thread starter GatorFarmer
- Start date
I sometimes carry a 45 ACP when I'm out in the country. I usually follow Jeff Cooper's advice and load a 200 gr. lead SWC at about 950 fps. Not up to a magnum load but it cuts a full size hole and penetrates really, really well.
I have killed a running buck and lots of other "edible" critters with my 1911 45acp. Some with jacketed HP's and others with cast. I always cast and shoot 230 gr. truncated cone bullets. I saya away from the lighter ones.
venomballistics
Member
I'd rather swap out the 1911 for the 629 when heading into the wild.
but, if no other option presented itself, you can do worse than 45 acp
but, if no other option presented itself, you can do worse than 45 acp
Rick_A
Member
With a stiff load in a truncated cone round, why not?...unless you're expecting Grizzlies. Does everyone really live in grizzly country or what?
Why not???
The military has carried the .45 ACP in the bush in the worst conditions imaginable. I don't think I'd hunt with it but for dispatching injured animals or even defending against most aggressive animals it should work well.
The military has carried the .45 ACP in the bush in the worst conditions imaginable. I don't think I'd hunt with it but for dispatching injured animals or even defending against most aggressive animals it should work well.
I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. Not ideal but can do the job if you do yours.
Not withstanding I don't think the US army expected there soldiers to run into Kodiak grizzlies with any frequency to be worried about, and even then I believe it still could penetrate a grizzlies skull if you were a good enough shot.
John.
As a matter of fact yes...it was a chow that probably weighed in at 75 pounds or so. A single 22 stinger was all he could stand and that was just until he hit the ground {about a half a second} He wasn't "standing it" after that.....
I cant believe all you guys are scared to walk around in the woods with 8 rounds of 45acp at your side....somebody blow fairy dust up your skirts or what????
Trying to stop a charging grizzly with a 45acp would be the end of your story
We'd have to see about that,but I'm game....that is if the bear will do it too. I have to admit, I do have a weakness for excitement and it's getting harder to find any these days....and yes, I did read the Alaskan bear books on a plane home from there. As I recall the problem with most bears not being stopped was that they were shot in the face. That wont even kill a horse...you are not hitting what it takes to stop him.
Put those same rounds in his throat or chest and he will have a hard time trying to maul somebody if he cant breath. 8 rounds of 45 slugs in the throat or chest and you think he wont stop??? You're kidding right??? Again, first choice...no, but stand there scared with a 45 in my hand??? No.
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Arik
Member
Depends on the woods. Typically 8 rounds of 45 is fine......assuming you got all 8 hits and all 8 were in the vital areas and not a leg or an arm.. It depends on your woods. And what resides in them. I'm Pa IF you see a bear it's usually 200 - 400 pounds. They're not big...as bears go. Other places a 700 lbs bear is considered scrawny.
Wasn't there a guy who used 6 shots of 454 before the bear dropped! Much more energy and penetration then a 45.
When I go camping I bring a 45. It's not a 1911 and I have more ammo but it is a 45. However, that's not my primary SD firearm. My primary is a semi auto with 30 rounds of 7.62x39. It has nothing to do with fear, I just don't want to find out that this particular animal needed more then 8
jlrhiner
US Veteran
Texas Star
US Veteran
Jeff Cooper once cited a case in a little Colt book printed in the 1930's. I later found a copy in a gun shop and read the entire thing. It's called, "Colt on the Trail" and had personal accounts from customers who'd used Colt arms outdoors.
Cooper referred to a bear called "Old Patch" who had to be shot by an angler that it attacked. He emptied his magazine and fed four more rounds singly until the bear was dead. But the 1911 did kill that bear.
Other bear cases involved similar loads from other guns. One case involved a British lady in India who borrowed her husband's New Service .45 (not a .455). She was coming down from a machan and her rifle was momentarily out of reach when a sloth bear came for her. The .45 killed it.
Other examples involved a .38-40 SAA and a .44 Special, I think. I don't want to dig out the book and check just now.
In non-defensive use, a turkey was taken with a .38 Official Police. I think the range was some 50 yards.
If the gun and the shooter are accurate enough, most of these cases could be solved with a .45 ACP.
Jeff wrote to me about killing a small deer in Central America with a .45 auto loaded hot with 215 grain SWC hard lead bullets. Said the venison was muy sabroso. I still don't know what sabroso means. I think it's like delicioso. Is Cal-Mex here? Maybe he'd know.
If you have a tight modern .45 auto and the ammo you want for the need, yes, I think one will usually suffice. If the original intent of the question was to answer whether the USAF - issued gun with two spare mags of GI ammo would suffice, maybe. I'll tell you this: I sometimes drew a .45 auto instead of a .38 in the USAF, because the .38 ammo was so weak. That was the M-41 ball round. Our NCO in charge of one armory took unit funds and bought us some .38 Hi-Velocity ammo off base. I felt much better with it in my gun, but the .45 would still be a better stopper.
At close range, the shot-loaded survival round would probably kill snakes or maybe squirrels or rabbits, but I wouldn't trust it beyond a very few yards. A ball round would do better. I hope a ball round would kill a porcupine or a beaver. An effective ambush might net you a deer. I'd sure try to carry additional ammo. Depending on where you had to bail out, a leopard or tiger might have to be killed, or a bear. That'd take luck and a sound knowledge of the animal's anatomy, but might be doable.
John Taylor said that he killed an African lion outside his tent with a Webley MK .VI 455 and MK VI military ammo. That was a 265 grain FMJ RN bullet at some 600 FPS. I think a .45 ACP would be better.
Cooper mentioned another way to get groceries with a .45. In WWII, he was a Marine officer on a Pacific island. He'd shoot bats with his .45 and trade them to the natives for lobsters they'd catch in the ocean. Both sides thought that was a good deal.
Mostly, in a survival situation, I'd try to snare birds and small game or use a deadfall trap. And some bailout kits in parachute seat packs held M-4 or M-6 survival guns. Those used .22 Hornet ammo and the M-6 also had a .410 barrel under the Hornet bbl. Those would be preferable for food gathering.
If I was taking a.45 to the woods now, it'd be a stainless Colt or Springfield copy that would shoot well with the chosen ammo. I think I could get game with it. But I really prefer a stainless .357 revolver with some .38 rounds as well as .357 loads.
Those Western grouse that sit still in a tree well within pistol range would provide a meal to a good shot with a .45. And you'd hopefully have some fishing gear. A pole could be cut if you had lures and line.
If you had a friend attacked by a croc, alligator, or caiman and know just where to shoot, I think a FMJ .45 bullet would kill one. That spot on the head is hard to hit if you're the one being attacked.
I saw a pic of Sasha Siemel's wife with a caiman she'd killed with an arrow. I guess a .45 bullet would do as well.
Cooper referred to a bear called "Old Patch" who had to be shot by an angler that it attacked. He emptied his magazine and fed four more rounds singly until the bear was dead. But the 1911 did kill that bear.
Other bear cases involved similar loads from other guns. One case involved a British lady in India who borrowed her husband's New Service .45 (not a .455). She was coming down from a machan and her rifle was momentarily out of reach when a sloth bear came for her. The .45 killed it.
Other examples involved a .38-40 SAA and a .44 Special, I think. I don't want to dig out the book and check just now.
In non-defensive use, a turkey was taken with a .38 Official Police. I think the range was some 50 yards.
If the gun and the shooter are accurate enough, most of these cases could be solved with a .45 ACP.
Jeff wrote to me about killing a small deer in Central America with a .45 auto loaded hot with 215 grain SWC hard lead bullets. Said the venison was muy sabroso. I still don't know what sabroso means. I think it's like delicioso. Is Cal-Mex here? Maybe he'd know.
If you have a tight modern .45 auto and the ammo you want for the need, yes, I think one will usually suffice. If the original intent of the question was to answer whether the USAF - issued gun with two spare mags of GI ammo would suffice, maybe. I'll tell you this: I sometimes drew a .45 auto instead of a .38 in the USAF, because the .38 ammo was so weak. That was the M-41 ball round. Our NCO in charge of one armory took unit funds and bought us some .38 Hi-Velocity ammo off base. I felt much better with it in my gun, but the .45 would still be a better stopper.
At close range, the shot-loaded survival round would probably kill snakes or maybe squirrels or rabbits, but I wouldn't trust it beyond a very few yards. A ball round would do better. I hope a ball round would kill a porcupine or a beaver. An effective ambush might net you a deer. I'd sure try to carry additional ammo. Depending on where you had to bail out, a leopard or tiger might have to be killed, or a bear. That'd take luck and a sound knowledge of the animal's anatomy, but might be doable.
John Taylor said that he killed an African lion outside his tent with a Webley MK .VI 455 and MK VI military ammo. That was a 265 grain FMJ RN bullet at some 600 FPS. I think a .45 ACP would be better.
Cooper mentioned another way to get groceries with a .45. In WWII, he was a Marine officer on a Pacific island. He'd shoot bats with his .45 and trade them to the natives for lobsters they'd catch in the ocean. Both sides thought that was a good deal.
Mostly, in a survival situation, I'd try to snare birds and small game or use a deadfall trap. And some bailout kits in parachute seat packs held M-4 or M-6 survival guns. Those used .22 Hornet ammo and the M-6 also had a .410 barrel under the Hornet bbl. Those would be preferable for food gathering.
If I was taking a.45 to the woods now, it'd be a stainless Colt or Springfield copy that would shoot well with the chosen ammo. I think I could get game with it. But I really prefer a stainless .357 revolver with some .38 rounds as well as .357 loads.
Those Western grouse that sit still in a tree well within pistol range would provide a meal to a good shot with a .45. And you'd hopefully have some fishing gear. A pole could be cut if you had lures and line.
If you had a friend attacked by a croc, alligator, or caiman and know just where to shoot, I think a FMJ .45 bullet would kill one. That spot on the head is hard to hit if you're the one being attacked.
I saw a pic of Sasha Siemel's wife with a caiman she'd killed with an arrow. I guess a .45 bullet would do as well.
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JJEH
Member
I'd use Buffalo Bore 45 ACP +P OUTDOORSMAN ammunition and would be absolutely comfortable with it.
Here's a good article about handguns and rifles vs. bears.
“Stopping” bears with handgun or rifle cartridges
I use their 9MM +P OUTDOORSMAN as well as the .38SPL +P OUTDOORSMAN for the woods/hiking/camping/etc. and feel very safe against all kinds of intruders. Well, minus dinosaurs. But anyway, I haven't had to use it so far and I hope I never will, so I can't give you firsthand real life experience on that...
Whitwabit
US Veteran
when I was in Alaska I was some what surprised that most carried something in a 357 more then anything else .. but when in the woods there a long gun was the best weapon to have hands down and most people always carried one .. 30-06 and the 308 probably the most common ..
On Kodiak Island I wouldn't trust a hand gun of any caliber against one of the brown bears there !!
The only scary animals in the woods around me are the 2 legged variety ..
the 44 or 45 I'm sure would do the same quality work ..
On Kodiak Island I wouldn't trust a hand gun of any caliber against one of the brown bears there !!
The only scary animals in the woods around me are the 2 legged variety ..
the 44 or 45 I'm sure would do the same quality work ..
When I was up there they all said a 12 ga. shotgun loaded with rifled slugs was the "best" thing for bear...I couldn't believe it!!! I would ask them, "do you know how many whitetail deer I have hit square in the chest with multiple 12 ga. slugs and had to track them to recover...if I found them at all??? I have tracked several big bucks that were hit good and never found them...and that is what those folks call "best" for big bears???
As a doc once put it "Location, location, location!". I know good friend who shot a posom three times center of mass with a 9mm and had to kill it with a pitch fork and I have another good friend that fired 2 shots from a heavy rifle and the third in the head to take a big adrenaline high bear down.
Just because it's possible to shoot something with something really weak doesn't mean you should out of your way and not pack the appropriate gun with you, it just makes no sense.
John.
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Yes, with a 45-70. The slug went through both lungs and the dog had enough fight left to run 30-40 feet and bight the end of the rifle hard enough to put teeth marks in the barrel. I'm glad the dog blamed the rifle and not me for shooting him as I'm sure he could have reached me if he wanted to.
Texas Star
US Veteran
Peter Capstick and his PH once shot a lion 11 times before it died. And, yes, it was trying to bite them. Calibers used were .375 H&H and either .470 or .500, I forgot which. Most shots were well placed, too. Very sobering.
Along the way, they discovered that the rather pompous PH's old ammo had some misfires.
I talked with a cop who shot a man four times in the chest with a .44 Magnum. The man ran for over a block before collapsing. The officer went to a .357. Figured it was lighter to carry and would work as well.
Extreme things like this happen. I want a Star Trek phaser. Never seemed to have any stopping failures...
Along the way, they discovered that the rather pompous PH's old ammo had some misfires.
I talked with a cop who shot a man four times in the chest with a .44 Magnum. The man ran for over a block before collapsing. The officer went to a .357. Figured it was lighter to carry and would work as well.
Extreme things like this happen. I want a Star Trek phaser. Never seemed to have any stopping failures...
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