Moe Mentum
Member
I stopped shooting .22's because its too expensive ( imagine that) I can reload 9mm for less than I can buy .22's.
THE $$ AND CENTS OF RELOADING AS I SEE IT
- Thread starter chief38
- Start date
fredj338
Member
Or 40 or 45 or 357sig or any of the magnum rev. There really is no downside to reloading. Even the time issue is negated with good progressive equip. The time it takes me to get in the car & drive to wally to buy 100rds of 45acp, about 20m each way, I can reload 400rds & save the gas money.
bigggbbruce
Member
Let me prefaces this by saying I DO reload but I DON'T really enjoy it.
Initially I got into reloading 37 years ago ..
About the same time I bought a gun in a caliber I knew nothing about.
7mmTCU..lot's of fun to shoot. 14" bull barrel pistol..
If I wanted to shoot it I had to learn how to load my own...now it makes sense to save the money per round so I can shoot more..
My feelings exactly. I use a Lee Classic Turret and can crank out 100 rounds and hour without rushing anything. Not progressive press speed, but I can make it faster than I usually shoot it.
I don't buy a lot of gizmos and only have maybe $500 total in my reloading setup for the 6 centerfire calibers I shoot. Buying components on sale I can load any of them for $5-$8 a box vs. $10-$25 a box for the cheapest factory ammo out there. So at $5-$17 a box savings that $500 investment was more than recouped after just a couple of years.
I can also afford to shoot a lot more, and with enough components on hand to load around 10k rounds at any time, I have no fear of shortages.
That makes reloading a win-win on all fronts, even though at this point I don't particularly enjoy doing it - mostly due to the difficulty of finding the time for it. I hope I live long enough to retire and then there will come a day when I have more time for the hobby and I expect I will enjoy it a lot more.
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fredj338
Member
One aspect of reloading often over looked is cost of maintaning your ammo supply. With 1000 cases, i can have components on hand to make 10k rds for about $1200. Even buying cheap russian poop, that will run you about $1800. That also occupies a lot less space.
Yeah, that's part of what I hope to have time for someday when I retire. Right now I can buy 9mm cast lead for 4 cents, 38spl/357mag for 5 cents, and 44spl/mag for 7-1/2 cents each. So until I have more time and less money to spare, buying them will have to do.
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One thing that reloaders never account for is their time. For some people there is a lost opportunity cost when they reload. The time you spend reloading is not free. It has a cost associated to it. You can debate they actual $$$ value and that value will be different for different people but it cannot simply be ignored IMHO. Most reloaders when they claim X $$$ in savings they do not account for their time. Time=Money LOL
I have a Lee Turret press with multiple turrets for the different pistol calibers I shoot. I can pump out about 200 rounds an hour and have about $650 total invested in equipment. I am well ahead of that number and only have been reloading for a little over 18 months. I can load 2 time a month for a couple of hours and crank out enough ammo for a month worth of shooting.
I really don't "save" money but I shoot more within the "budget" I have set aside for ammo.
I have a Lee Turret press with multiple turrets for the different pistol calibers I shoot. I can pump out about 200 rounds an hour and have about $650 total invested in equipment. I am well ahead of that number and only have been reloading for a little over 18 months. I can load 2 time a month for a couple of hours and crank out enough ammo for a month worth of shooting.
I really don't "save" money but I shoot more within the "budget" I have set aside for ammo.
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While I agree that time is an issue, I can't agree that in this case time=money. And if you've read every post in this thread you already know why. Here it is again...
If every minute of my day were able to be spent doing something that PAYS me money, then sure ALL my time would have a monetary value. As it is if I spend a few hours reloading that otherwise would have been spent veg-ing out in front of the TV or computer screen, what is the cost of that time? ZERO.
As long as I find time at the bench no more stressful than any other leisure time activity, then the time spent has no associated cost. Opportunity cost, maybe, actual cost, no.
I understand that argument but it is circular reasoning.
X is true because of Y.
Y is true because of X.
Your time has no value =X because you assigned no value to your time=Y.
On the surface it appears to be logically valid but in the end it is still a fallacy. Everytime people talk about the economics of reloading this same answer is always given to the time is money question. I am not saying that it is not true for you but it is not universally true.
Once you push the time spent reloading into the hobby time or time with no value your argument becomes circular.
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And the same argument about circular logic can be made for your reasoning and statements.
There is a "cost" for the time spent reloading only because you assign a monetary value to your (otherwise non-productive) time!
You are right, my statements are not universally applicable - and the same is equally true of your statements!
And the same argument about circular logic can be made for your reasoning and statements.
There is a "cost" for the time spent reloading only because you assign a monetary value to your (otherwise non-productive) time!
You are right, my statements are not universally applicable - and the same is equally true of your statements!
Not at all. My statements are open ended. Look at them again.
I state reloaders do not account for their time when they talk about the $$$ reloading saves them.
I state there is lost "opportunity cost" for SOME people and that their time is not free. Our time on this planet is finite and has "value" some people translate that "value" into $$$ others do not.
I do not put a $$$ value on it because that is variable. $.01 to $100+ whatever you want it to be. You want it to be Zero.
You ignore that cost in your calculation.
What I am saying is that when you look to see if you want to start reloading to save $$$$ you need to look at the cost of your time as an individual. You cannot take someone else's numbers and apply it to you and assume it is the same as you have done. I am pointing out an often overlooked component to the equation. You are making universal judgements based on your individual situation as it pertains to your time spent reloading.
Same argument different thread. In the end the $$$$ savings claimed by most reloaders is just a circular justification for the time and money spent on a hobby. Its not about $$$$ savings because most of us on the day we die will have hundreds if not thousands of $$$ in unused components that someone will have to dispose of. LOL
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And at the same time you couldn't find powder or primers. I did not reload at that time but I was sitting on more than enough loaded ammo that I could still shoot at my normal rate for about 24 months or if I cut back a little I could have easily stretch it to 36. I did not buy a brick of 22lr during the shortage.
It does not matter if you reload or if you buy loaded ammo if you do not have a stock pile when a shortage hits you are going to be out of luck of have to pay the piper. Reloading does not change that it does change what you buy to make that stockpile but it does not change the need for a "stockpile."
fredj338
Member
I've addressed the time issue many. many times. Just buy better gear, Unless you make more than about $150/hr, you will "make money" reloading on say a 1050 vs working to buy ammo. Even on a 650 w/ case feeder, 700rds is a leisurely pace. If it is say 45acp, my cost today, buying bullets, about $14/100 to reload. Buy cheap 45 factory, about $28/100. So I save $98 net reloading for one hour. I would have to make more $150 gross to buy that much ammo. Since very, very few of us make $300K a year, yeah, I save quite a bit of $$ reloading, even counting my time.
I read you are loading on a LCT. Not a bad press, but not time efficient, pulling the handle 3-4x for one round of ammo. Even a 550b gets you an easy 400rds/hr for not a lot more $$. So again, if time is the issue, spend more $$ for better gear.
The time argument gets really old though as none of us pay a professional to shoot for us. You would get better results & it would likely be cheaper to just pay someone else to shoot for you & make a head cam video you could dub over. Most people make time excuses for all kinds of things when it's really about time management & time value. If you like watching tv more than reloading or working out or whatever, well then not much else matters & no one is changing your mind.
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fredj338
Member
I have also addressed this often. If you can NOT find say 9mm ammo, you don't shoot 9mm. Yet even during the shortage of primers & powder, you could find something to adapt. Mag primers, rifle primers, shotgun powders, even some fast rifle powders all could be adapted to allow you to keep shooting your pistols. I've noted before, if I had to, I could break down any shotgun shell & make pistol ammo out of it, just need primers. Make your own bullets, you don't even have to worry about that. I cast for all caliber handgun & can even make 223 bullet from spent 22lr cases. So I will always be able to shoot if I reload & shoot for less $$ than factory ammo guys, always.
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fredj338
Member
If I could buy bullets for that price I wouldn't cast either. Just finding cheap alloy is getting harder & harder as tire shops stop using lead ww. Buying alloy @ $1/# means my 147gr 9m cost me $22 in alloy alone. Where are you getting cast that cheap??
OK. You're right.
There is a "cost".
Exactly the same "cost" as watching TV.
Or playing pointless word games in internet forums.
If you look at it that way EVRYTHING we do has a "cost". It costs you some of that finite amount of time to have a conversation, or REPLY TO THIS POST, or eat, or shower, or watch a football game, or have sex, or repair your car, or play with the dog, or even just sit there and be a couch potato.
Does it make sense to count that time as the COST of all those activities too? On that basis the most costly thing most of us do is sleep since just about everyone spends more hours every day doing that than any other single activity. The actual VALUE assigned to time spent for each of these activities not only varies from person to person, but from activity to activity. Therefore the number of variables is nearly infinite, which makes including that "cost" in the reloading calculations virtually impossible. Personally I don't do that kind of numerical analysis on all of my day to day activities. Do you?
I maintain that the value of time spent watching a football game IS effectively zero. So if I spend that time reloading instead then it doesn't enter into the equation. My point is not that reloading doesn't take any time or that the time it takes has no value, but rather the point is that the time spent reloading would otherwise be spent on something else and it is very likely the time could and otherwise would be spent in less productive and profitable ways.
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Also in that equation you are not accounting for the upfront cost of the Dillon 650. You are not accounting for the space in your home which you have devoted to your reloading setup. When you leave out huge chunks of the true cost of reloading of course the conclusion is that you save money.
Strawman arguments are even weaker than circular reasoning at least circular appears logically valid on the surface. LOL
OK, since you want to do a detailed cost analysis, lets talk about the OPPORTUNITY COST of having 3x more funds tied up in your stockpile of factory ammo, versus my having only 1/3 as much tied up in my stockpile of reloading components....
As previously stated the savings per round will allow you to quickly recoup the equipment costs, if you actually shoot more than occasionally and shoot anything other than cheap 9mm.
You continue to equate the time where you reload to other activities that have no economic value or impact in your opinion.
Change it for a moment. Do you mow your own lawn? Change your own oil? Do you do your own home repairs like painting. If you don't then you could just as easily equate the time spent reloading as time where you could have been doing those other things saving the cost of paying someone else to do it.
Everytime this gets brought up those who insist on making and argument based on saving $$$ cherry pick their examples and use circular reasoning to demonstrate what they have convinced themselves to be true.
Change out watching football, which is an economic waste of time, with mowing your lawn or painting your house, and the $$$$ savings changes. You choose not to do that but it does not mean others make a different calculation. It does not make your savings real it simply exposes your mindset. Which there is nothing wrong with.
I fully understand that my time spent on this forum talking to you about this topic is an economic loss for me. I do it anyway but I would never attempt to claim that it somehow benefits me monetarily. The same goes with all my other hobbies. They suck money out of my pockets they don't put it back in. I am at least realistic about it. LOL Clearly YMMV
