The Bren Ten Curse

[krtlesfd]

I'd appreciate an opinion on these. I picked up the Bren Ten Owner's Manual and Product Catalog at a SHOT Show in, I think, 1983 or 1984. The Peregrine flyer came later, but I don't remember when or where I got it. As I earlier mentioned, the Owner's Manual is about as complete treatise as one could imagine on a handgun, basically a gunsmithing guide. The catalog goes into great detail about the specifications of the full BT product line of different models. I am curious as to whether these might have any significant value. They have been in my library of gun ephemera for a long time.

Before the eager young Ethang manages to talk you into selling him that manual ( ), any chance you could scan it and make it available to us, maybe a PDF or just as pictures? I'm no more likely to own a Bren Ten than I am a flat-12 Testostarossa, but I'd love to add the manual to my collection.

 

[krtlesfd]

Wow! That might be the single largest collection of Bren Tens ever!

It's certainly the largest collection of Bren Ten magazines ever!

 

[rosewood]

It's certainly the largest collection of Bren Ten magazines ever!

You sure that isn't all of them? Guns and mags?

 

[petepeterson]

I like 'em.

That is impressive.

 

[Ethang]

Before the eager young Ethang manages to talk you into selling him that manual ( ), any chance you could scan it and make it available to us, maybe a PDF or just as pictures? I'm no more likely to own a Bren Ten than I am a flat-12 Testostarossa, but I'd love to add the manual to my collection.

What you did there... I see it...

really though I too would love a scan of that.

 

[Ethang]

I like 'em.

Are you interested in adopting a middle aged man who loves Bren Tens?

Asking for a friend.

 

[DWalt]

Before the eager young Ethang manages to talk you into selling him that manual ( ), any chance you could scan it and make it available to us, maybe a PDF or just as pictures? I'm no more likely to own a Bren Ten than I am a flat-12 Testostarossa, but I'd love to add the manual to my collection.

Owners manual and catalog contents can be found here.
Dornaus & Dixon / Peregrine Industries Literature

 

[DWalt]

Met the man. Was a pompous alpha hotel that thought his **** didn't stink. That little emblem on the side of the gun reeks of Nazi Germany as does everything about him regarding the cap he wore and his admiration of the ways of Germany.

I have read that the original D&D concept was to design and manufacture the gun chambered in .45 ACP only. When Cooper was prevailed upon to lend some gravitas to the venture, he insisted that it must be chambered for 10mm (his brainchild), and so it came to be. It is alleged that it required a fair amount of redesign of the BT to make Cooper happy with it.

 

[TheHobbyist]

@ OP: If you like it, I hope you can find one at a price that works.

Sometimes just keeping an eye out and letting collectors you know that are friends about your wants (or rather need ) can result in finding yours.

It is really easy now to go to auction sites and buy whatever, sometimes it is worth it, others maybe not so much.

Could you do a Google Alerts with this variant and 'for sale', for instance?

Good luck and hope you get what you're looking for.

 

[BEEMER1]

I have read that the original D&D concept was to design and manufacture the gun chambered in .45 ACP only. When Cooper was prevailed upon to lend some gravitas to the venture, he insisted that it must be chambered for 10mm (his brainchild), and so it came to be. It is alleged that it required a fair amount of redesign of the BT to make Cooper happy with it.

I have done a lot of research on Bren Tens and I have never heard the 45 ACP/Jeff Cooper story before. They wanted to bring out a completely new Combat Firearm and were interested in what Cooper said about the new 40 caliber cartridge to out do the 45 ACP.

As far as the magazines go, MecGar did the original mags. D&D wanted to do both 10mm and 45 acp pistols and presented that to MecGar. MecGar said they could do one magazine that could do both cartridges. They built the prototypes and they worked fine so D&D gave them the contract and both companies went to work.

D&D started building 10mm guns. When the magaszines came in fron Italy, they would not work in D&D's 10mm pistols. So D&D had pistols to ship and no magazines to go with them. They would not pay MecGar and MecGar would not make them any new ones so D&D worked with another company to build them and you know the rest of the story.

D&D was esentially broke by the time the magazine mess was starting to get under control.

 

[krtlesfd]

Owners manual and catalog contents can be found here.
Dornaus & Dixon / Peregrine Industries Literature

You sir, are a prince! Thank you so much for that.

 

[DWalt]

I have done a lot of research on Bren Tens and I have never heard the 45 ACP/Jeff Cooper story before. They wanted to bring out a completely new Combat Firearm and were interested in what Cooper said about the new 40 caliber cartridge to out do the 45 ACP.

As far as the magazines go, MecGar did the original mags. D&D wanted to do both 10mm and 45 acp pistols and presented that to MecGar. MecGar said they could do one magazine that could do both cartridges. They built the prototypes and they worked fine so D&D gave them the contract and both companies went to work.

D&D started building 10mm guns. When the magaszines came in fron Italy, they would not work in D&D's 10mm pistols. So D&D had pistols to ship and no magazines to go with them. They would not pay MecGar and MecGar would not make them any new ones so D&D worked with another company to build them and you know the rest of the story.

D&D was esentially broke by the time the magazine mess was starting to get under control.

A related story was that the first prototype gun was chambered in .45 ACP. And there is no known prototype in 10mm.

Another story is that the two Sonny Crockett guns used in Miami Vice for two seasons were highly modified BTs converted to use .45 ACP blanks, as there were no 10mm blanks available.

 

[BEEMER1]

D&D made 250 Brens chambered for 45 ACP for The Marksman Gunshop in the Chicago area. They were specially marked and had different serial numbers.

The Miami Vice was Bren was a 45 ACP version with the slide marking changed is all because of the blank situation you mention. The slide was hard chromed to show up during the night firing scenes.

If you look at the picture of my Brens earlier in this thread, the two guns in the presntation cases are Dual Masters and have both 10mm uppers and 45 acp uppers.

45 acp Brens are very common.

 

[MP-5]

Miami in the 80s cool
Miami Vice TV Show- still cooler
Bren Ten 10 mm - even cooler
Hollywood making billions on action films and genuflects to the demonization of firearms- not cool at all!

 

[krtlesfd]

D&D made 250 Brens chambered for 45 ACP for The Marksman Gunshop in the Chicago area. They were specially marked and had different serial numbers.

The Miami Vice was Bren was a 45 ACP version with the slide marking changed is all because of the blank situation you mention. The slide was hard chromed to show up during the night firing scenes.

If you look at the picture of my Brens earlier in this thread, the two guns in the presntation cases are Dual Masters and have both 10mm uppers and 45 acp uppers.

45 acp Brens are very common.

My apologies, Beemer1. When you posted the photo earlier, I thought it was merely a stock photo of assorted Brens. I had no idea this was your own collection. Well done, that man! My hat's off to you sir. I envy both your gorgeous collection and your unswerving commitment.

 

[Dave from Pa]

I have a Bren 10 Military and Police I purchased from a friend some time ago. I was after him for a couple years to buy it, finally one day he called with a price. At that time they were pricey but still affordable. The gun was a novelty and for a time I shot it often at my range and a couple of local matches.The Norma ammo flattened pins but I liked it better out of a 610. Ounce I had brass all my ammo was handloaded. This pistol shoots and functions well.It always manages to draw questions at the range.Size is comparable to my 1076,it handles and points better than a 645.I managed to pick up 2 more mags along with the one that came with it.Over the years I have shot a few Standard Models and one Marksman model that I really liked.The Military and Police model I have is the only one I have seen.I will try to post a few pictures.

 

[rosewood]

For those of you that own one, is it ramped or throated? Thanks!

 

[BEEMER1]

For those of you that own one, is it ramped or throated? Thanks!

Both the 10mm Bren Tens and the Marksman Specials (45 acp) have ramped barrels.

 

[BEEMER1]

This thread has had a lot of interest so here is a run down of the different models that D&D sold.

First, here is a standard model which is a 10mm. The serial number is comprised of the year of mfg (1983), the letters S & M for Standard Model, and the serial number.

 

[BEEMER1]

Here is a Marksman Special Bren chambered for 45 acp. The Marksman Gunshop in the Chicago area ordered and sold these, there were 250 of them.

The serial number is self explanatory. They also sold about 100 of the padded cases for these pistols, they were an extra and about 100 were sold.

 

[BEEMER1]

Here is a Bren Ten Military and Police in 10mm. They are the same pistol as the standard model only the frame is coated black also.

 

[BEEMER1]

Here is a pair of Bren Special Forces Models. They made them as both light and dark. They have 4" barrels as opposed to the normal 5".

Notice the serial numbers specifying color.

 

[BEEMER1]

Here is the top of the line as far as Bren Tens go, the Dual Master Set. There were less than 50 of these produced. They came in a wood presentation case and had both a 10mm upper and a 45 acp upper.

The bluing on the slides was more polished on the DM's and the stainless frame flats were polished. Some light scroll engraving was done on the slides also.

The serial numbers on all the DM's ended in "00".

 

[BEEMER1]

Here is an interesting Bren. It is a standard model with an "API" serial number. API stand for Americdan Pistol Institute which was owned by Jeff Cooper and the predecessor to Gunsite Ranch. These were Bren Tens sold or given to Special Shooters connected with API. It is thought that less than six of these exist.

Notice the serial number that looks like the date 10-19-36. I have not been able to find any leads on what it signifies so far.

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[surfgun]

It is an "Maxi 10 airsoft" version, gas powered , shoots a 8mm plastic BB. Probably less of them made than the real Bren, very few imported into the US.

I have one of the Airsofts.

 

[surfgun]

My 10mm Witness dressed up in two tone.

 

[Ethang]

I have one of the Airsofts.

I have been trying to find one of those for years too...

 

[roninsan]

10-19-36.....the Colonel and Countess's anniversary? My parents were nearly the same age as they were, they got married in '37. Just a guess.
I knew the Colonel some, not as well as others, I never found him to be an ***, as was hinted at here by someone.
As to the Bren, I wonder how some would feel if the Glock had failed? I don't know why some people seem to celebrate a guns demise. I wish the Bren had been a success. I wish the Detonics was still around. (Sonny carried one of those too, remember?) It's like gun owners, I for one am glad to see the huge numbers of minority women, and women in general getting armed up. The only way we preserve our rights is to exercise them. The more of us that do the better.
Back to the Bren, I never did understand why Vltor couldn't pull it off. They made a lot of cool stuff that seemed high quality, they couldn't get the Bren up and running? Did Detonics suffer the same fate? How is it a guy from Austria can make a success story out of plastic but Americans can't put together what could be a very good pistol?
Eugene Stoner made a gun with a lot of flaws, and yet who doesn't own one? John Browning "improved" the 1911 in 1935 and yet which is in more holsters today? (in America anyway.)
Cursed? Perhaps. I for one would like to see someone produce the thing. Would I buy one? Sure. Put me down as a yes. I'd love to at least see a successful American company bang out something that would just say "cool."

 

[DWalt]

10-19-36.....the Colonel and Countess's anniversary? My parents were nearly the same age as they were, they got married in '37. Just a guess.
I knew the Colonel some, not as well as others, I never found him to be an ***, as was hinted at here by someone.
As to the Bren, I wonder how some would feel if the Glock had failed? I don't know why some people seem to celebrate a guns demise. I wish the Bren had been a success. I wish the Detonics was still around. (Sonny carried one of those too, remember?) It's like gun owners, I for one am glad to see the huge numbers of minority women, and women in general getting armed up. The only way we preserve our rights is to exercise them. The more of us that do the better.
Back to the Bren, I never did understand why Vltor couldn't pull it off. They made a lot of cool stuff that seemed high quality, they couldn't get the Bren up and running? Did Detonics suffer the same fate? How is it a guy from Austria can make a success story out of plastic but Americans can't put together what could be a very good pistol?
Eugene Stoner made a gun with a lot of flaws, and yet who doesn't own one? John Browning "improved" the 1911 in 1935 and yet which is in more holsters today? (in America anyway.)
Cursed? Perhaps. I for one would like to see someone produce the thing. Would I buy one? Sure. Put me down as a yes. I'd love to at least see a successful American company bang out something that would just say "cool."

The downfall of D&D was undercapitalization. Very common among startups, underestimating the amount of funding required to set up development, manufacturing, and distribution operations and not being able to come up with it later. There was nothing wrong with the product when introduced but it was poorly brought to market by leaving the magazine availability and quality problems, etc. unresolved. I'd guess the potential successor organizations, Peregrine and Vltor, figured out that its day in the sun was over and that there were better uses for their capital than making the BT. Time always marches on, and the parade passed by the BT.

 

[Donn]

Interesting. Gun Stories episode on the Outdoor channel this week was about the Bren Ten. Used to see them occasionally at gun shows back when. Don't recall what the going price was, wasn't interested, still not. There are other makes of 10mm available that function dependably, have magazines, and accessories.