The Definitive Model 40/42 Thread

[Jlang13]

New to me Model 42

I just joined this forum as a result of finding the 42 I have now. Any information would be appreciated as it does not seem to fit the time line in the initial post. The sn is 137XX and 42 is stamped in side the crane. It has the 4 screw sideplate along with the extra retaining screw. As pictured it has the high horn stocks and the locking pin is present in the grip frame. Overal the gun is in excellent condition with no signs of wear or being refinished.

 

[les.b]

I just joined this forum as a result of finding the 42 I have now. Any information would be appreciated as it does not seem to fit the time line in the initial post. The sn is 137XX and 42 is stamped in side the crane. It has the 4 screw sideplate along with the extra retaining screw. As pictured it has the high horn stocks and the locking pin is present in the grip frame. Overal the gun is in excellent condition with no signs of wear or being refinished.

Jlang13:

Let me be the first to welcome you to the forum!!! I love Smiths, but I think I have more of this particular style of snub nose than any other type. Partly because they are very collectible and also practical.

I am not an expert, and there will probably be someone along shortly with some more explicit information.

The Model 42 was numbered concurrently with the all steel model 40. Production began in 1952. Smith and Wesson did not assign model numbers to their guns until 1957. You say that the gun has the four screw sideplate, yet that feature, the upper sideplate screw was deleted in 1955. Also, with this upper screw having the locking screw, which was only present in the very early guns.This seems to be a conflict. Are you sure that you are quoting the serial number? There is sometimes an assembly number, which is not the serial number, stamped inside the crane. The serial number would be the number stamped on the bottom of the grip frame. This number that you are quoting seems to be low enough that it matches the locking screw on the upper sideplate screw, but the "42" model number on the frame would indicate post 1957 manufacture. Please get back with some clarification on the serial number, with some detailed photos as well.

Edit, 7:22 pm, June 25, 2016: Reading over the earlier posts, I see the following, from post 146 on this thread, posted 10/24/2013, and I am copying from it here:

"I bought this a couple of weeks ago from "noconeetrader" aka Handejector...
It is a very very nice early model 42 from 1958. S/N 12284. The interesting thing about this is the very late date to still have the "bug screw" on the upper side plate. I have some early examples from 1953/54 with the Bug screw. See earlier posts. July 18 2013.
However, Peter2772000 has one 50 numbers different from mine also with the Bug Screw. Sn 12234. So the Bug screw may have been used much later than stated in SCSW. It is also possible when the upper side plate screw didn't seat well they just used them randomly until there was a design change. The pics are from "Noconeetrader" His are better than I could take."

So it seems that there may be a precedent for these higher serial numbers to have the Bug, or retaining screw. I am sure that someone will be along soon who knows more than I do. By the way, one of those guys who are very knowledgeable is the gentleman named in the above quote, "Noconeetrader" is the owner of this forum, "handejector", or also known as Lee Jarrett. He knows a heck of a lot more about Smith and Wessons than I do, and he might drop by to comment on yours. There are many other experts here on the forum, including the guys who "wrote the book", literally, the "Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson", which is now in the 3rd edition, with the 4th on the way. If you don't have this book, you need to get it.

But your serial is still higher than the one in the quote, and I'm still befuddled.

End edit

Also, it would be interesting to see which latch is present on the left side of the frame. These can also help in determining vintage.

Anyway, congratulations on a great collectible, as well as a gun you can carry for self defense.

I have quite a number of these in both steel and aluminum frames, and even recent ones with titanium and scandium frames. All the way from first year production to last year production. They are great carry guns, and have no protruding edges to catch on clothing when drawn, and could even be shot from a pocket in extreme circumstances, although I would not necessarily advise it.

Best Regards, Les

 

[Jlang13]

My new 42

Hi Les,
The questions you raise are the same that I have. I am attempting to post pics of th ser. no. ,cylinder release, model no. inside of the crane. You can see the bug screw in the pic already posted.

 

[Jlang13]

Cylinder latch pic

 

[Jlang13]

Model no. picture

 

[les.b]

Hi Les,
The questions you raise are the same that I have. I am attempting to post pics of th ser. no. ,cylinder release, model no. inside of the crane. You can see the bug screw in the pic already posted.

Well, Jlang, I'm not ashamed to say when I'm out of my depth. I'm going to PM one of the experts, and ask him take a look at your and my posts, and maybe see if he can shed a little light on this gun. In the meantime, maybe one of the other experts will be along.

One thing about this forum that makes it the best on the 'net, is that there are real experts here, that there are passionate scholars here, and that there are dedicated, knowledgeable collectors here, sometimes they are all the same person. You will always get generous, thoughtful, and courteous information here.

This may be one of the revolvers that would warrant obtaining a factory letter. It would clarify some of the information, and tell you where the gun was shipped, and any particular information that is in the factory records.

I'll be back soon,

Best Regards, Les

 

[Snuffy2]

One more for the list

Found a nice old Model 40 no-dash at a gun show today. S/N L27xx. Three-screw frame, smooth low-horn grips numbered to the gun, with gold colored medallions, and the late-pattern latch. Incredibly tight mechanically, with just enough honest blue wear to give it a little "character". I'm guessing it's from about 1972.

I went to the show intending to buy a Shield, but I couldn't pass this one up. Kind of a grail gun for me since my uncle had one when I was a kid. I cleaned it up when I got it home, put a Tyler (my LAST one!) on it, and shot it just enough before dark to be satisfied that it hits where it looks. It will go into the carry rotation tomorrow.

Love this thread!

 

[les.b]

Model no. picture

Jlang13:

This photo is just too blurry for me to make out. Could you try to get a clearer shot? This is, after all, one of the clues at the heart of trying to pin down this revolver.

Best Regards, Les

 

[Jlang13]

Here is a better shot of the model number.
Also, I am having an issue posting more than one photo to a post, any suggestions?

 

[les.b]

Jlang13:

Well, I have heard back from one of the real authorities on Smith and Wessons in general, and especially on the little "I" frames, and "J" frames. Your Model 42 is a "J" frame. He goes by "Hondo44" here on the forum, and whenever I run across his posts, I try to pay particular attention, as I am usually about to learn something. He has given me permission to post his reply to my PM inquiry to him. Here is his message:


"Hi Les,


#1. One must recognize Centennial models are a breed of their own. During they're entire initial production run from 1952 thru 1974, both models, steel and airweight, barely sold over 40,000 units. They were slow movers, hence deleted from the line in '74. IMO they were ahead of their time, even though based on the same concept of a much older design. They are much more popular today than in the past. See the significance of being a slow seller and its affect on its time line below.

#2. The SCSW is a great source, but not perfect. This is especially true of the the '50s I and J frame sections. They were collector 'orphans' whose focus was on the glamorous N and K frames of the period. Only now are they becoming appreciated. Jim Supica was happy to get my corrections to the 3rd ed. for his 4th edition, because 90% of that I submitted dealt with correcting information about the I and J frames of the '50s.

#3. As you know, nothing with S&W is absolute. And S&W never attempted to assemble or ship their guns in evolutionary or serial # order. They forged and machined frames in large batches and stuck them in inventory. When they decided to build more, they just grabbed a batch of soft fitted assemblies, stamped with the 3 assembly #s, (but un-serial numbered), from stock; serial numbered them from a block of numbers and completed them. The block of numbers could be a block of serial #s higher than an unused block of lower numbers, saved for another model using the same serial range, such as the airweight. They paid no attention to which evolution of frame/yoke/side plate assemblies that they grabbed. The 'first in, last out' rule prevailed.

So there are many anachronisms (serial numbered guns with early features way out of the normal considered time line). This is exacerbated when we talk about 'slow movers' like Centennial frames that sat in stock much longer! We see lower #'d 3 screw frames that were forged/machined last, but completed before higher or lower serial #d 4 screw or 4 screw with bug screw frames.

Another anomoly: lower numbered guns completed first, can be placed in the back of the safe, with higher # guns filling the shelf towards the front of the safe as the batch is completed. Which do they grab first to fill an order; walk to the back of the shelf for lower #d guns? Nope, the ones in front with higher #s get shipped first!

So I see no issue with 4 Screw frames, or even 4 screw with bug screw frames shipped in 1957, or later and stamped with Model #s. So although the upper side plate screw deletion was ordered 12/13/55, we still see them being assembled and/or shipped long after.

I'm in the minority because 'shipped dates' mean little to me. They don't reflect production time all that well, especially again, on slow moving models. That's why I'm more interested in the evolutionary features of a model.

A word about assembly #s:

Assembly (factory work) #s: These multi-digit numbers of 3 to 5 digits, are on the yoke at the hinge, in the 'yoke cut' on frame opposite the yoke near the hinge, and inside of the sideplate, for the pre war and early post war period. The assembly # in the yoke cut of the frame was relocated to the left side of grip frame after model #s were assigned and the serial # was added in the 'yoke cut' where the assembly #, now moved to the left side of the grip frame, used to be. You know they are assembly (factory work) #s because of those 3 locations that always match on guns that are original, and that's the only usefulness for them after guns leave the factory: still used to this day, long after serial number locations decreased.

I hope this captures the essence of your question. If not, pls let me know.

Jim"

Well, I would still like to see a better photo of the crane recess stamp for "MOD 42". And I would still advise you to invest in a factory letter from Roy Jinks, the Smith and Wesson Historian.

Best Regards, Les

 

[b0nedaddy2360]

My model 42

Inherited from my mom. Was her EDC.

 

[rcortesvargas]

Greetings, Everyone.






.

Small gun great peace of mind

Enviado desde mi XT1580 mediante Tapatalk

 

[JFrames4ever]

I purchased an S&W model 40-1 several years ago when they were reintroduced. As I accumulate J Frames, does anyone know of someone who could duplicate the original high horn smooth stocks? Also I wonder how hard it would be to drill the frame and grip safety for a locking pin. I have a period correct Tyler T Grip. Everything would be correct but the cylinder stop

 

[kevin134]

Was wondering if anyone has an idea of exactly how many model 40's with the "L" prefix serial number were made from '68 to '74? I know from my 4th edition book they shared that "L" prefix with the 42 and they ended with L9861. Got one I'm looking at at a local store that is L760'X' and am curious. Thing is mint with a minor turn ring, but sadly no box.

 

[two-bit cowboy]

For the record here's my '55 steel model. All the numbers match.

Slàinte,

Bob

 

[bruce5781]

I have been looking for a pre-40 Centennial for several months. I had three things in mind while I looked. It had to be presentable. It could not be so nice that I was afraid to just stick it in my pocket on the weekend. It had to be under $550.
A couple of weeks ago, I found this one in about 90% condition for $535 delivered. I'm very happy with it.

Sent from my SM-S975L using Tapatalk

 

[two-bit cowboy]

I have been looking for a pre-40 Centennial for several months. .... I'm very happy with it.

Rightly so, bruce. Congratulations! You did very well.

The Centennial was my "must have." Everything else sort of pales in comparison. Yours is a beauty.

Wear it in good health.

Bob

 

[JordonC2]

Bug Screw 42

Hi I just picked up this 42.
Learned a lot about it reading this thread.
Anything else you can tell me about this gun would be great!
Orig. Box and high horn grips.
Has the bug screw and the grip safety lockout pin!
S#125XX

 

[JordonC2]

Hi my post is above.
Can anyone give me a value? I received an offer and I am not sure if I am getting taken. I don't need to get every last penny, but I would like a fair deal. If anyone can help please PM.
What is this thing worth?

 

[les.b]

Jordan, value may depend on a few things we don't know from the photo. For example, is it stamped model 42? Or are you calling it that because eventually the Cenntenniel Airweight became the 42?... Does the serial number on the box correspond to the serial of the gun?...how are the bore and chambers? .....

Maybe a couple of more photos,many answers to some of these questions would help the experts here (no, I'm not one!) to give you an approximate value. Partly this will depend on where you live.

Are you aware that this exact model you have is one of the James Bond guns? Issued to Bond at the same time he got his more famous Walther PPK!! (In the book "Dr. No). Things like this might have some effect on value, or at least serve as a selling point.

Best Eegards, Les