The Governor with 410 loads

[FishyOne]

Came to laud Federal's .410 Handgun load in 2-1/2" 000 buck (out of a shotgun).

Stayed to consider the evidence that the same load penetrates effectively out of a snubby barrel beyond point-blank distances; still not convinced, but don't think it's a gimmick, either.

The Box O' Truth #53 - The Taurus Judge, Revisited - Page 1

Left glumly pondering blasting critters who are neither game nor predator.

Not judging, to each their own, just not getting it...

000 buck loads from Federal are much lower velocity than their Remington counterparts. 850fps vs. 1225fps is huge and your penetration comments with the Federal load from a 2 3/4" barrel are justified.

I've fired a box of the Remington 000buck in my Governor. I have no concerns with penetration. It's got to be close to 1000fps and feels like a full-on 44 magnum in a 629.

 

[Czbilly]

The Federal #4 shot made for the handguns works very well to about 18-20 yards on critters. A good #8 skeet load is a nice subtle stinger hint if death is not necessary. Just make sure you get loads designed for handguns.

 

[Engine49guy]

Enjoyed reading the thread but had to comment on the Raccoon relocation.

We have some very problematic Raccoons in South Florida, The local animal control advised that relocating Raccoons to a new area is tantamount to passing out Cholera blankets to the indigenous locals ,
Apparently these critters develop a certain degree of compartmentalized disease resistance that gets all fouled up by critters from another area and that extermination was preferred over relocation to protect the breed.

I don't know the accuracy of that statement but sounds plausible to me.
Then again I don't like Raccoons either. ; )

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Left glumly pondering blasting critters who are neither game nor predator.

Raccoons aren't predators? I beg to differ, perhaps you might do a little research into the "Ursus Lotor" or wash bear (Wäsch Baren here in sunny Germany). They don't get much more predatorial, or much less endangered. You don't have to get it, but you should at least be informed about it.

Ogy, you had me convinced not to get one, until your last few posts....

 

[Clean Break]

If it won't cleanly kill an opossum or raccoon, it ain't much of a defense round nor varmint round, end of story. "Range" trips punching paper don't tell you much beyond relative accuracy or spread.

The whole advantage of a shotgun is two-fold: multiple hits and a wide pattern that makes it easier to hit a moving target quickly (hence "bird guns"). A 3" pattern at the above mentioned ranges is too dinky to offer any advantage over a single bullet. A .410 not only holds far fewer pellets than typical shotguns, but to slow them down by firing them out of a stubby revolver barrel makes them even more anemic and ineffective.

My .22 lr. revolver has killed many raccoons and 'possums cleanly with just one shot. Rarely has a second shot been needed. The 36 gr. hollowpoints kill much better than the solids. Those, or a .38 special, .45 Long Colt, a full-size 20 gauge or 12 gauge shotgun are all much better choices for culling varmints than a .410's few pellets out of a stubby barrel. I have no problem culling pests around my place, but I do feel it should be done as quickly and humanely as possible, and the field results mentioned above are not the way to go. Clean Break

 

[Hapworth]

Raccoons aren't predators? I beg to differ, perhaps you might do a little research into the "Ursus Lotor" or wash bear (Wäsch Baren here in sunny Germany). They don't get much more predatorial, or much less endangered. You don't have to get it, but you should at least be informed about it.

I'm well aware of the diet of these particular omnivores.

"Predator" in my post referred -- obviously, I thought -- to the kind that is an active threat to family, pets or livestock. Raccoons don't pose this beyond, say, to poultry. Ogilvyspecial's first post didn't indicate predation to be an issue, and subsequent post confirmed it wasn't (except, perhaps, to roofs and attics).

Your last line is an obnoxious way of suggesting someone read-up on a subject, especially when you're mistaken.

 

[Hapworth]

000 buck loads from Federal are much lower velocity than their Remington counterparts. 850fps vs. 1225fps is huge and your penetration comments with the Federal load from a 2 3/4" barrel are justified.

I contacted Federal a while back and they stated that their 850fps spec was out of a snubby barrel, and that one could expect much higher velocities out of a full-sized shotgun. Do we know what kind of barrel Remington used for the 1225fps?

 

[Hapworth]

I did the live & let live thing (over 20 yr's) until the 3rd time our roof had to be fixed,
which was due to a Raccoon that I caught in the act after it had made it through the shingles & was working on the roof boards when I shot it...

Like I said, not judging, just curious; there are reasons to have to get tougher with the local fauna and you listed some understandable ones (though I would have let the clumsy possum slide ).

 

[M2MikeGolf]

I'm well aware of the diet of these particular omnivores.

"Predator" in my post referred -- obviously, I thought -- to the kind that is an active threat to family, pets or livestock. Raccoons don't pose this beyond, say, to poultry. Ogilvyspecial's first post didn't indicate predation to be an issue, and subsequent post confirmed it wasn't (except, perhaps, to roofs and attics).

Your last line is an obnoxious way of suggesting someone read-up on a subject, especially when you're mistaken.

Sorry, didn't mean to offend you, but I'm not mistaken either. They are indeed predators that cause a lot of mischief in a lot of areas, to include livestock among other things (poultry, crops, whichever is affected by their appetite). Foxes are in a similar category, and commonly have to be culled due to their invading living areas. Raccoons, depending on where you live, can be often be a big problem and for lots of reasons. I think that Ogy wasn't trying to make any kind of a statement on animal behaviour other than the use of his revolver, which is the subject of this thread, but perhaps I was mistaken on that count.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

I think that Ogy wasn't trying to make any kind of a statement on animal behaviour other than the use of his revolver, which is the subject of this thread, but perhaps I was mistaken on that count.

Not mistaken at all, in fact your above assessment is spot on.

When The Governor first came out I had already experienced my "Louisville Slugger"
moment, so, when I read where others were thinking that .410 loads out of a
handgun sounded like a good self defense idea I thought I would relate my experiences
with The Judge, which might help them come up with their own opinion on the issue.

To be honest, when I got my Judge I thought it would be a double duty gun,
critter control & self defense. When I had to struggle with it during critter
control I knew that .410's for self defense wasn't going to cut it for me.

I'm with Clean Break when it comes to animals, I want it to be quick and
as painless as possible for the animal, when I had no confidence
that it was going to work out that way I sold The Judge.

I have shot a couple of critters since getting The Governor but have relied
on my tried & true 20 gauge. I still carry The Governor on a nightly basis,
but just in case I find myself in a situation where my 20 gauge proves to be
too much gun for the area I find myself in at the time.

The last thing I want to do is experiment on critters to find out if The Governor,
with the newer .410 Handgun Loads, is more effective than The Judge was
with the "old school" .410 rounds (3".) Because of this I may never know if the
newer shells perform better on something living and am sure not going to rely on
paper punching results for that purpose, not after going that route with The Judge.
On paper it looked very effective, in action, not so much....

 

[Hapworth]

Sorry, didn't mean to offend you, but I'm not mistaken either...

I meant you were mistaken in assuming I'm not familiar with the eating and behavioral habits of raccoons; I agree they can be pests.

But as far as predation goes, I don't think they merit the status of mountain lions, wild boars and coyotes, for instance. Heck, you can eat them, but that doesn't mean I'd call them game, either.

End of threadjack.

Returning to topic: I think The Governor is neither fish nor fowl -- both of which a raccoon will eat.

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Returning to topic: I think The Governor is neither fish nor fowl -- both of which a raccoon will eat.

I concur 100%. Good call Hapworth, now that's the gentlemanly way to settle differences!

 

[holmt56]

I see a lot of discussions about defensive 410 loads and other lead shot uses for the Governor. Does anyone know of non-toxic 410 for 2.5 inch that will fit the Governor? I would like to carry it with shotshells during pheasant hunting in case I get a cripple at close range. In Washington I must use non-toxic to be legal but hate to use 12ga at close range. I can't find any on the web for 2.5 inch shells. I think I may need to reload my own but any help is appreciated.

 

[youngda9]

Gov or Judge for SD is a joke, a novelty gun really. Much better options out there. If you're going to carry something that larger get a 7 shot 357 in a 3-4" bbl and you'll be MUCH better off.

 

[LostintheOzone]

If it won't cleanly kill an opossum or raccoon, it ain't much of a defense round nor varmint round, end of story. "Range" trips punching paper don't tell you much beyond relative accuracy or spread.

The whole advantage of a shotgun is two-fold: multiple hits and a wide pattern that makes it easier to hit a moving target quickly (hence "bird guns"). A 3" pattern at the above mentioned ranges is too dinky to offer any advantage over a single bullet. A .410 not only holds far fewer pellets than typical shotguns, but to slow them down by firing them out of a stubby revolver barrel makes them even more anemic and ineffective.

My .22 lr. revolver has killed many raccoons and 'possums cleanly with just one shot. Rarely has a second shot been needed. The 36 gr. hollowpoints kill much better than the solids. Those, or a .38 special, .45 Long Colt, a full-size 20 gauge or 12 gauge shotgun are all much better choices for culling varmints than a .410's few pellets out of a stubby barrel. I have no problem culling pests around my place, but I do feel it should be done as quickly and humanely as possible, and the field results mentioned above are not the way to go. Clean Break

Careful now. This isn't a shotgun forum. The Gov. will be around for a few years until the novalty wears off like all the other combo guns that have come and gone. If it was a good idea everyone would hunt with a drilling or cape gun. MHO.

 

[Clean Break]

Careful now. This isn't a shotgun forum. The Gov. will be around for a few years until the novalty wears off like all the other combo guns that have come and gone. If it was a good idea everyone would hunt with a drilling or cape gun. MHO.

And "novelty" is perhaps it's genuine appeal. Who's to say it wouldn't be fun to shoot & to play with? If there was a bunch of campers around a fire and someone brought out a Governor and three or four boxes of varied ammo... who here wouldn't want to crank off a cylinder? I would. Some might argue that a Governor in the hand beats a safe queen every day of the week. Clean Break

 

[Doug M.]

I couldn't find a link for it on line, but there was a scathing review of the Judge in SWAT magazine a year or so ago. The parts that matter were all about the ballistic performance and tactical value of what it can/can't do. There may be a niche into which the concept fits, but I can't think of one. The Governor may be a better implementation of the concept, but it's still just a better quality of lipstick on the pig.

 

[OldArcher]

"All engineering is a compromise."

I couldn't find a link for it on line, but there was a scathing review of the Judge in SWAT magazine a year or so ago. The parts that matter were all about the ballistic performance and tactical value of what it can/can't do. There may be a niche into which the concept fits, but I can't think of one. The Governor may be a better implementation of the concept, but it's still just a better quality of lipstick on the pig.

The Governor is like a Swiss Army knife. It does a lot of things that other weapons do, but not as well as all of them. If you're needing ammo here, in the Western Hemisphere, chances are, finding something in .45 caliber will possibly meet your needs...

As a survival weapon, it could kill snakes, harvest very small to medium size game, and if necessary, turn bad people into good fertilizer. In a way, it's like the story of the dancing bear.
It wasn't that the bear danced so poorly, but that the bear danced at all...

For anti-carjacking duty, it's outstanding. Doesn't have to be .410ga 2 1/2" load of 000 buckshot. It could easily be 225gr .45 Colt FTX by Hornady. Likewise, it could be a full-moon clip of .45 ACP in Federal 230gr FMJ. Result would be the same, bad guy pushing-up daises. It's a beautifully designed weapon that can actually forgotten, until the moment of its' being needed...

Revolvers are inherently more safe for tyros and newbies, than, say, one of my beloved Glocks... Unlike a Glock, I sleep with one of my Governors under my pillow. The six or so pound trigger pull is acceptable, especially when going around in near pitch black, night vision device up to one eye, and the other glued onto the weapon's front sight...

No, it's not as capable in comparison to dedicated weapons. It is, however, capable of getting you back to the rifle or shotgun you shouldn't have put down in the first place, as Clint Smith, of Thunder Ranch, is wont to say...

IF you need a weapon for the PAW, and have more options to keep it fed, the Governor cannot be easily discounted...

OA, out...

 

[mag318]

Wow, this thread I started last year is still ongoing. I have to admit I still enjoy my Governor and I like the fact that S&W keeps coming out with new and interesting firearms. From the M&P22 to their new M&P Shield they've stayed cutting edge. Makes me wonder what will they bring out next. My LGS use to be a big S&W distributor and on the rare occassions he gets a shipment of Governors they disappear almost instantly. They are somewhat of a novelty, but the more I shoot mine the more I can see the utility of the 410/45 design. And ofcourse then there is the fun factor.

 

[M2MikeGolf]

Careful now. This isn't a shotgun forum. The Gov. will be around for a few years until the novalty wears off like all the other combo guns that have come and gone. If it was a good idea everyone would hunt with a drilling or cape gun. MHO.

You mean like this?

Where I hunt, Drillings are no novelty, but a way of life for the serious hunter/woodsman and this one is fifty years old, pretty good for something that has "come and gone". Sometimes a "novelty" works better than the "norm": My trusty old Drilling will take any game that is in season with a simple flip of a switch, Fox, Reh, Gams, Damwild, Mouflon, Wild Boar, Red Stag, Ducks, etc. It's a time proven weapon that you see more often than not, at least in Europe.

I'm not seeing any reason the Governor couldn't fit into a pretty useful category better than novelty; combo guns are great once you get past the strange desire many have for large capacity, rapid fire weapons. Ammunition selection with one weapon is a pretty useful item, anywhere in the world.