The J Frame for defense

[geoff40]

Hit the attacker with the first couple of shots and one wouldn't be there trying to reload. Shot placement is king. I think a Chief is a great SD gun for the average person, with a caveat of learning to shoot it well as an absolute must. I practice well enough with mine that I feel well protected, and have confidence that I will be the winner should I ever have to go down that road. Pretty unlikely I am going to get in to a prolonged shoot out with multiple thugs, a handgun being the wrong tool for such a task in the first place.

 

[MaximumLawman]

This isn't the 1970's. As far as to how many thugs I have stopped in the last year that were carrying more than one high capcity handgun, the answer is twice. It's not uncommon.

The 1970's had some of the most badass cop killers around compared to any time in the past 30 or 40 years. I don't recall any of the local cops losing a gunfight because they had .357 revolvers instead of .40 hi-cap semi-autos. And every big city had people like this back then. More so than today, based on what I've seen. They were very well-armed too. I'm thinking of guys like Boyd, Bethune and Hayward Brown since you brought up Detroit. As far as your example, a dope man hiding a hi-cap pistol in the bushes is NOT carrying it on him. And, yes, it is a rare occurrence for someone to take two hi-cap handguns off a bad guy's person. The examples you gave didn't include them carrying the guns on them, and you gave two examples of a hi-cap close by in one year. That's uncommon. I'll let other big city cops weigh in on that one. I still return to my J-Frame as a primary off-duty gun again and again. That's after carrying things like a Colt Officer's Model Lightweight and a Glock 27. I would have no problem recommending the J-Frame as a primary self defense gun for anyone, especially for the armed suburbanite who doesn't plan on going into areas where there is statistically likely to be more trouble than at the local Moose Club.

The preferred weapon for the on-duty types to take on bad guys is a shotgun or rifle. Off-duty too. The reasoning for carrying a hi-cap pistol off duty instead of a J-frame is usually "what if". If someone is so worried about "what if" that they need a high-cap .40 or .45 off-duty, and are willing to dress around it and put up with the inconvenience of carrying something too big to fit in a pocket, I always wonder why they don't wear a vest off-duty too. After all, the technology is there, why not use it if you need to carry a 16-shot semi-auto because a J-frame isn't enough?

I'd like to know this statistic: How many off-duty police or non-police citizen shootings, where the person armed with a J-Frame wasn't a scum bag or involved in a crime, wound up with the J-Frame-Armed person losing a gunfight because 5 shots wasn't enough. Same statistic for hi-cap semi autos with results stated in both raw numbers and percentages.

 

[redlevel]

Way back in the mid 70's I'd say that 90% of all east coast coppers carried either a J frame 2" or a PPK/S Walther. At least so it seemed.

I had a 2" M-60 with a set of Fuzzy Farrant custom grips in some sort of Safariland OWB holster. And I felt WELL gunned.

Then we had a situation one time maybe an hour after shift change, and a few of us from the previous shift were nearby (at a Bar!) and responded. There had already been some shots fired, and one of our guys had been injured in a scuffle with the perp and had lost his 4" M-19.

Standing there trying to cover one flank, with my 2" M-60; MAN but did I ever feel underpowered and ineffective! I luckily snagged a shotgun from one of the State Troopers who responded. Felt a LOT better then.

I still carry a M-60 occasionally but my Commander sized Ed Brown 1911 in .45 acp gets carried far more. With oneof my ex duty guns SIG 229's in .357 SIG as my car gun when I travel in my man bag.



FN in MT

If you will notice my post immediately previous to yours, you will see that I specified civilian concealed carry. Yes, a police officer who is sworn to go toward a bad situation whether on or off duty rather than getting away from it should carry heavier artillery than a civilian. Even as a civilian, in a situation like you described, I would probably have at least a heavier handgun, and possibly a long gun, available in my car.

Confidence with a gun is bred via success at drills and practice. Difficulty with sights may make that difficult.

No matter what gun is carried, drill and practice is necessary. I practice regularly with my j-frames, both using the sights and instinct/hip/point shooting at very close ranges.

Wow, there is a lot of response to this thread.

That is because there are a whole lot of us who carry j-frames as our primary concealed weapon and we grow weary of being told that we are foolish. Most of us realize that the j-frame is a minimalist approach. We are aware of all the limitations, but we have concluded (for most of us, after a lot of thought, experimentation, and practice) that a j-frame is very likely to provide us with the protection we need under our particular circumstances.

I am about to go to work in a pawn shop. Will I depend on a j-frame as my primary carry? No, probably not. I will probably carry at least the four inch Model 12, or more probably the Kimber Pro Carry I mentioned in my first post. Probably the Kimber, because I figure my likelihood of needing serious caliber and a quick reload ability is several notches higher in that particular setting.

 

[TAC]

The S&W J-frame is the gun of choice, for back-up, with the Michigan State Police. Also my EDC.

 

[sipowicz]

Here's what's left of my carry revolvers. I really like the "O" ring retention on the left hand holster. I'm carrying a G26 more lately because of wandering pit bulls around here.

that's all I have too...

 

[C Broad Arrow]

I have owned a large number of different styles and sizes of guns and tried to see how they would all work as a CCW gun. While I love my G19 my M60 beats it hands down for ease of concealment and carry.

I load with standard 158 LSWCs and it shoots well enough in any scenario that I can imagine. Are there better solutions to consider in other circumstances - absolutely. But overall I would give the J-Frame high marks in the all around good CCW gun category.

 

[ladder13]

I carry whatever he recommends.

 

[papajohn428]

I was a diehard revolver shooter for 25+ years before I felt that I could shoot a 2" J-frame well enough to rely on it for personal defense. I cut my teeth on K-frames and bigger guns, and those snubbies I tried proved to me that I was a HORRID shot with anything less than 3 inches of barrel. To this day,I still consider a J-frame an "Expert's Gun", especially if you don't practice with it often. Such is a necessary evil!

A few years ago I decided I would try out another J-frame, a S&W 642, which happened to come with a Crimson Trace lasergrip. Once I had a handle I could actually hold properly, everything got better. Tiny little grips don't work for me, and the Tyler T-grips made it better, but the CT-305 fits me like a glove, and my instinctive shooting is FAR better with it. I've since added two other J-frames with similar stocks, and shoot them far better than I expected. But man, ya gotta practice with them Lil Guns!

 

[elm_creek_smith]

I have a factory nickeled S&W Model 37 and a Taurus 85SSUL that I usually carry (one at a time) as backup to my duty revolver, a 4 inch S&W 686-6, or my primary off-duty CC, a 3 inch S&W Model 13-3. Sometimes off-duty I carry both the little guns, and, rarely, just one instead of the Model 13-3.

I don't feel unarmed with one gun, I just got into the habit of carrying two. I routinely shoot the little guns out to 25 yards and occasionally out to 100 yards so I remember how much front sight to hold over.

ECS

PS. I'll be 60 next week.